Received: from mail-pd0-f184.google.com ([209.85.192.184]:55247) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1XzzNS-0003GK-Tu; Sat, 13 Dec 2014 18:57:50 -0800 Received: by mail-pd0-f184.google.com with SMTP id r10sf1036860pdi.11 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2014 18:57:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent:sender :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=Q9P+APgBE4Z/stLVYcjqpDZwl1ptn9ZqZq3cu0wtswI=; b=uiwKlAxLfPfBbWfKFIVwa566N6IclmaJrxZ8dYaEO1NRVztleVd3unhmMUmITJPzVL 0SMXe+1Ka32hUpTle8DcJFFQEu2Avruw1GOSmL9XFObpLPat/dJd9vaPUbtOUuRZ3G6W xEKO2TvZ0yQ5Yz5kPx892q3Mj4aSQtWt0NaNaGqx9g3VcN963hYfUKB167OPWs0dbfHZ fggpgOuiyBmsTbhis5lCnsILGsK2KrRd7GuNDlLUJ8pFVONaVpnKQ//C+UN/sOPpu4Q6 BBZ4y4M6sG+xxj6i/QPEOZNffZkjgmYm+6BQeAHEX9OQYEB86G8zAVosEr2tD/BlGIOx 0dhQ== X-Received: by 10.182.72.161 with SMTP id e1mr11obv.41.1418525860186; Sat, 13 Dec 2014 18:57:40 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.182.53.194 with SMTP id d2ls867430obp.55.gmail; Sat, 13 Dec 2014 18:57:39 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.182.168.42 with SMTP id zt10mr21385101obb.9.1418525859890; Sat, 13 Dec 2014 18:57:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from earth.ccil.org (earth.ccil.org. [192.190.237.11]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id aw7si460257igc.1.2014.12.13.18.57.38 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 13 Dec 2014 18:57:38 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of cowan@ccil.org designates 192.190.237.11 as permitted sender) client-ip=192.190.237.11; Received: from cowan by earth.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XzzNI-0005TB-Gx for bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; Sat, 13 Dec 2014 21:57:36 -0500 Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2014 21:57:36 -0500 From: John Cowan To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [bpfk] official cmavo form Message-ID: <20141214025736.GB19927@mercury.ccil.org> References: <548AC3CB.7090403@gmx.de> <580B9AB84B34485AB4139B921C46CF42@gmail.com> <3ED463A548E74A53BD8F2ECEF0C620F8@gmail.com> <14FDADF47D7841A39D612894E81CC89B@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) Sender: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: cowan@ccil.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of cowan@ccil.org designates 192.190.237.11 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=cowan@ccil.org Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 972099695765 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - Content-Length: 1442 And Rosta scripsit: > [w] is merely a necessarily-short subvariety of [u], and Lojban should not > be making phonological contrasts based on segment duration, because such > contrasts are not phonetically robust. Tell that to the Hungarians! Oh, wait .... (Seriously, vowel length is reconstructible to Proto-Finno-Ugric, though conventionally not to Proto-Uralic.) > That is, it's a bad idea for > [tuitsku] to be ambiguous between /tu witsku/ and /twitsku/, and that > ambiguity should be remedied and nullified by forbidding one of them. The current prescription forbids both of them: "tuitsku" has the illicit CgV form, and "tu uitsku" has be [tu?witsku]. I'm good with this. Lojban's phonotactics are as arbitrary as every other feature of the language, and I see no need to liberalize them. -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org I Hope, Sir, that we are not mutually Un-friended by this Difference which hath happened betwixt us. --Thomas Fuller, Appeal of Injured Innocence (1659) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BPFK" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.