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Subject: Re: [bpfk] official cmavo form
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On Sat, Dec 13, 2014 at 11:57 PM, John Cowan <cowan@mercury.ccil.org> wrote:
>
> And Rosta scripsit:
>
> > That is, it's a bad idea for
> > [tuitsku] to be ambiguous between /tu witsku/ and /twitsku/, and that
> > ambiguity should be remedied and nullified by forbidding one of them.
>
> The current prescription forbids both of them:  "tuitsku" has the illicit
> CgV form, and "tu uitsku" has be [tu?witsku].


But CLL doesn't forbid CgV's in fu'ivla. It has examples such as
"saskrkuarka" and "bangrblgaria", so I don't think CLL has a problem with
"tuitsku".

CLL does forbid "tuuitsku", but due to morphological rather than
phonotactic constraints. CLL requires a consonant cluster in the first five
letters of a brivla, and it also requires a pause before words beginning
with a glide, so for CLL "tuuitsku" is a non-word form much like
"slinku'i", phonotactically acceptable but morphologically unanalyzable.
CLL would not have a problem with, for example, "blatuuitsku" as a fu'ivla
form distinct from "blatuitsku", one with four syllables and the other with
three.

camxes currently allows both "tuitsku" (a fu'ivla)  and "tuuitsku" = "tu
uitsku", because camxes doesn't require a pause before words that begin
with a glide. I wouldn't have a problem with disallowing CgV, but it is a
change from the current official prescription.


> Lojban's phonotactics are as arbitrary as every other feature of the
> language, and I see no need to liberalize them.


In this case the need is to make them more strict.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
On Sat, Dec 13, 2014 at 11:57 PM, John Cowan <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:cowan@mercury.ccil.org" target=3D"_blank">cowan@mercury.ccil.org=
</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0=
 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">And Rosta scripsit:<br=
><span class=3D""><br>
&gt; That is, it&#39;s a bad idea for<br>
&gt; [tuitsku] to be ambiguous between /tu witsku/ and /twitsku/, and that<=
br>
&gt; ambiguity should be remedied and nullified by forbidding one of them.<=
br>
<br>
</span>The current prescription forbids both of them:=C2=A0 &quot;tuitsku&q=
uot; has the illicit<br>
CgV form, and &quot;tu uitsku&quot; has be [tu?witsku].=C2=A0</blockquote><=
div><br></div><div>But CLL doesn&#39;t forbid CgV&#39;s in fu&#39;ivla. It =
has examples such as &quot;saskrkuarka&quot; and &quot;bangrblgaria&quot;, =
so I don&#39;t think CLL has a problem with &quot;tuitsku&quot;.=C2=A0</div=
><div><br></div><div>CLL does forbid &quot;tuuitsku&quot;, but due to morph=
ological rather than phonotactic constraints. CLL requires a consonant clus=
ter in the first five letters of a brivla, and it also requires a pause bef=
ore words beginning with a glide, so for CLL &quot;tuuitsku&quot; is a non-=
word form much like &quot;slinku&#39;i&quot;, phonotactically acceptable bu=
t morphologically unanalyzable. CLL would not have a problem with, for exam=
ple, &quot;blatuuitsku&quot; as a fu&#39;ivla form distinct from &quot;blat=
uitsku&quot;, one with four syllables and the other with three.</div><div><=
br></div><div>camxes currently allows both &quot;tuitsku&quot; (a fu&#39;iv=
la) =C2=A0and &quot;tuuitsku&quot; =3D &quot;tu uitsku&quot;, because camxe=
s doesn&#39;t require a pause before words that begin with a glide. I would=
n&#39;t have a problem with disallowing CgV, but it is a change from the cu=
rrent official prescription.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-lef=
t:1ex">
Lojban&#39;s phonotactics are as arbitrary as every other feature of the<br=
>
language, and I see no need to liberalize them.</blockquote><div><br></div>=
<div>In this case the need is to make them more strict.</div><div><br></div=
><div>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e xorxes</div><div><br></div></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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