Received: from mail-yk0-f184.google.com ([209.85.160.184]:35794) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1YToBW-0008Ia-3I; Fri, 06 Mar 2015 01:04:49 -0800 Received: by ykp9 with SMTP id 9sf14912298ykp.2; Fri, 06 Mar 2015 01:04:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :content-type:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe; bh=kz5FRiR6E6kHW35/fIxOLwMxPzt2y/Gg2g/Es0llaQA=; b=zUFRBCHvzwTjfRqD6CxyyaddLT0+EqHJwZskfiY7oWFEHY0BXMxVmiSziI3y0FLdLK 3tLdeX4b6HmUJGOCsVCaVG7CksnwjS/ctfarRXecr59a0OlXbbWXXIjfkYcIQLK0/0BX A+tsN4D2SbM5BO32HRD2EBBjwfTnnVW6UJqvJLWtEy8tFAqmD/5IuvXEsx5fPiXDRVFp 8GCRBzI5r5j0VcujRJ870SztFw4gqv6f7BXZsq2qCWNmziyK/OLkDChAWxX0YdCC95oN Xq1zv8dHQKNWkPBDVwAVUthdS7xb7FqXZaD4AbRu/Y/QVS5i2KLWFd2RoSNYUJ3UEG4s ZORw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :content-type:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe; bh=kz5FRiR6E6kHW35/fIxOLwMxPzt2y/Gg2g/Es0llaQA=; b=lQLMKt/x97LXJfSNc2KSLXO130uofbvohgtTIqBMyJ3fBJo0ZDU9RymRP0+4XScA+o IglsPb8NuT1QkylNtjpBiOqNVyFxJZGZjQQ1B8XeKmd4hq72EbECU9sqU6mZJlGHJ2Rr QyktcTe5Xmyv5/h++GNSFQphkI2hBrc9TKo6ebRFm4q6B4SCwDhZhcJz99+FLGO8EHXC UK5Ab2CI4W812fQqdWOimZqJAB7RRqNySZJa29ZqrDfCa5uDUTZZHxSWw/sKF32n9Qhg 7RwAiKtH1lNQXfjxwlyC4whekNzqJp2hbAigyU/VPeyZWGrt2jq1pexlJXcpmSs8UWfX 9R7g== X-Received: by 10.50.60.71 with SMTP id f7mr746088igr.10.1425632675794; Fri, 06 Mar 2015 01:04:35 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.29.108 with SMTP id j12ls129636igh.35.gmail; Fri, 06 Mar 2015 01:04:35 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.50.56.17 with SMTP id w17mr639535igp.1.1425632675533; Fri, 06 Mar 2015 01:04:35 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2015 01:04:34 -0800 (PST) From: guskant To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Message-Id: <8dd9d2f2-8d77-4df5-ab2f-7edfcbedb3cf@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: References: <176acd59d96b035a4d948f57b10ead1e.squirrel@www.ccil.org> <6c4c0bcc-ba7c-4c74-8916-882371604210@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [bpfk] Month Names (WAS: official cmavo form) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_415_7392572.1425632674415" X-Original-Sender: gusni.kantu@gmail.com Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 972099695765 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_bar: - Content-Length: 12460 ------=_Part_415_7392572.1425632674415 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_416_1840389725.1425632674415" ------=_Part_416_1840389725.1425632674415 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Le vendredi 6 mars 2015 16:32:04 UTC+9, la gleki a =C3=A9crit : > > > > 2015-03-06 10:09 GMT+03:00 guskant >: > >> >> >> Le vendredi 6 mars 2015 15:19:11 UTC+9, la gleki a =C3=A9crit : >>> >>> >>> >>> 2015-03-06 3:18 GMT+03:00 guskant : >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> My suggestion is based on {se detri}, and it does not restrict the=20 >>>> calendar to Gregorian. When you set the catendar to {lo nau me mi}, yo= u can=20 >>>> use {masnpa} for "next month", or you can creat {maslni'upa} for "last= =20 >>>> month". >>>> >>> This will require some explanations in the grammar to avoid adding=20 >>> infinite number of such words to dictionaries. >>> =20 >>> >> >> It is already clear from the definitions of the words. Besides, I don't= =20 >> recommend such a usage as I said as below: >> > > I mean if someone uses {maslni'upanonore} a nintadni listener wont be=20 > able to find this word in dictionaries. > > Lojban is usually presented as an isolating language and newbies may not= =20 > be prepared for agglutination. > .ua However, such a thing cannot be prevented by dictionaries. We will need= =20 a page on words for date on mediawiki or lojban.org. =20 =20 >> >>> However, using the series for that purpose is not very lojbo, because= =20 >>>> there are aleph-null number of months, and number of brivla should be= =20 >>>> finite, and lojban words should not conjugate. For such a purpose, we= =20 >>>> should use a cmavo of MOI like {moi'o}. >>>> >>> >> =20 >> >>> =20 >>>> >>> You seem to be confused with BAI. My suggestion is brivla based on {se= =20 >>>> detri} for recurring system. >>>> >>> BAI are usually shorter. >>> =20 >>> >> >> As for BAI, I've already suggested {de'i'V} series in my last two=20 >> messages. >> >> =20 >> >>> >>>> Moreover, your numbering system is European style, but I prefer ISO=20 >>>> 8601 style. In both case, {pi'e}s are omissible. To make the meaning= =20 >>>> clearer, you can mention a phrase [noi sinxa lo nanca/masti/jeftu/djed= i=20 >>>> ku'o]. >>>> >>> >>> For me one number in {de'i} denotes day of month , two numbers D-M,=20 >>> three numbers D-M-Y, four numbers D-week number-M-Y. >>> Otherwise {de'i li pare} becomes ambiguous between Day 12 / December /= =20 >>> Year 12 A.D. >>> >>> >> The official definition of {de'i}/{detri} does not suggest that. >> > > It was suggested in L4B: > > http://www.tlg.uci.edu/~opoudjis/lojbanbrochure/lessons/less5dates.html > Neither CLL nor BPFK. =20 > =20 > >> {detri} based lujvo series discussed in my last message would help us ou= t=20 >> of the ambiguity between {nanca}-, {masti}-, {jeftu}-, {djedi}-types of= =20 >> {detri}_1. >> > > I just prefer isolating style where one isn't required to learn numerous= =20 > words but instead to combine already learnt words. > =20 > Why don't you make any comment on {de'iV} series? Only five more words are= =20 enough for preventing cultural difficulties on expressions of date. mu'o --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= BPFK" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ------=_Part_416_1840389725.1425632674415 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Le vendredi 6 mars 2015 16:32:04 UTC+9, la gleki a= =C3=A9crit :


2015-03-06 10:09 GMT+03:00 gus= kant <gusni...@gmail.com>:


Le vendredi 6 mars 2015 15:19:11 UTC+9, la gleki a =C3=A9crit&n= bsp;:


2015-03-06 3:18 GMT+03:00 guskant <gusni...@gmail.com>:


My suggestion is b= ased on {se detri}, and it does not restrict the calendar to Gregorian. Whe= n you set the catendar to {lo nau me mi}, you can use {masnpa} for "next mo= nth", or you can creat {maslni'upa} for "last month".
This will require some explanations in the grammar to avoid adding = infinite number of such words to dictionaries.
 
=

It is already clear fro= m the definitions of the words. Besides, I don't recommend such a usage as = I said as below:

I mean if some= one uses {maslni'upanonore}  a nintadni listener wont be able to find = this word in dictionaries.

Lojban is usually prese= nted as an isolating language and newbies may not be prepared for agglutina= tion.

.ua However, = such a thing cannot be prevented by dictionaries. We will need a page on wo= rds for date on mediawiki or lojban.org.
 

 
However, using the series for that purpo= se is not very lojbo, because there are aleph-null number of months, and nu= mber of brivla should be finite, and lojban words should not conjugate. For= such a purpose, we should use a cmavo of MOI like {moi'o}.

 
 
=
You seem to be confused with BAI. My suggestion is brivla bas= ed on {se detri} for recurring system.
BAI are= usually shorter.
 

As for BAI, I've already suggested {de'i'V} series in my la= st two messages.

 

Moreover, your numbering system is European s= tyle, but I prefer ISO 8601 style. In both case, {pi'e}s are omissible. To = make the meaning clearer, you can mention a phrase [noi sinxa lo nanca/mast= i/jeftu/djedi ku'o].

For me one= number in {de'i} denotes day of month , two numbers D-M, three numbers D-M= -Y, four numbers D-week number-M-Y.
Otherwise {de'i li pare} beco= mes ambiguous between Day 12 / December / Year 12 A.D.

=

The official defi= nition of {de'i}/{detri} does not suggest that.

It was suggested in L4B:


Neither CLL nor BPFK.

 <= /div>
 
=
{detri} based lujvo series discussed in my last message would help us= out of the ambiguity between {nanca}-, {masti}-, {jeftu}-, {djedi}-types o= f {detri}_1.

I just prefer isol= ating style where one isn't required to learn numerous words but instead to= combine already learnt words.
 

Why don't you make any comment on {de'iV} series? Only fi= ve more words are enough for preventing cultural difficulties on expression= s of date.

mu'o

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