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[2a00:1450:400c:c00::22a]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id bg8si197987wib.3.2015.03.05.02.02.21 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 05 Mar 2015 02:02:21 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::22a as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c00::22a; Received: by wghb13 with SMTP id b13so52269356wgh.0 for ; Thu, 05 Mar 2015 02:02:21 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.180.84.133 with SMTP id z5mr20990430wiy.25.1425549740900; Thu, 05 Mar 2015 02:02:20 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.194.240.197 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Mar 2015 02:01:59 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <176acd59d96b035a4d948f57b10ead1e.squirrel@www.ccil.org> From: Gleki Arxokuna Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2015 13:01:59 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bpfk] Month Names (WAS: official cmavo form) To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04428b9cea8774051087a9e4 X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::22a as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 972099695765 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.4 X-Spam_score_int: 4 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "stodi.digitalkingdom.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: 2015-03-05 12:32 GMT+03:00 guskant : > I think {PA-masti} or {PA-ma'i} type lujvo or the derived fu'ivla are not > very suitable for January, February etc., because the latters are rather > related to {detri} or {detke'u}, a position on a calendar > [...] Content analysis details: (0.4 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: lojban.org] -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3 RBL: Good reputation (+3) [209.85.212.184 listed in wl.mailspike.net] 0.0 HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS From and EnvelopeFrom 2nd level mail domains are different -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (gleki.is.my.name[at]gmail.com) 0.0 DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED No valid author signature, adsp_override is CUSTOM_MED -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL Mailspike good senders 0.2 FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN 2nd level domains in From and EnvelopeFrom freemail headers are different 2.0 LONGWORDS Long string of long words Content-Length: 16116 --f46d04428b9cea8774051087a9e4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 2015-03-05 12:32 GMT+03:00 guskant : > I think {PA-masti} or {PA-ma'i} type lujvo or the derived fu'ivla are not > very suitable for January, February etc., because the latters are rather > related to {detri} or {detke'u}, a position on a calendar > Earlier I called this splicing time intervals. https://groups.google.com/d/topic/lojban/xfawt6XTkW4/discussion {citsi}+masti+number were suggested instead since {citsi} is indeed a splicing time interval gismu. > , while {masti} means a duration according to a calendar system. In other > words, {la'o zoi January zoi la'o zoi March zoi dunli lo ka masti li pa la > gregoris}. Any lujvo constructed from {masti se detri be li pa} would be > suitable, but it seems too long for frequent use. So I've just created a > series of zi'evla for month names in la jbovlaste. Vote up or down as you > like. > > zi'evla created: > masnpa masnre masnci masnvo masnmu masnxa masnze masnbi masnso masndau > masnfei masngai masnjau masnrei (ja masnxei) masnvai > I wanted to create them in the form of {PAgmese} where -g- is for Gregorian however this requires multiplying entities and doesn't solve the problem of "tomorrow", "next hour" etc. Also this isnot a solutions of when saying "In year 2000". Shall we create thousands of new fu'ivla for each splicing year? We could if we assume that they are regular and thus aren't needed to be added into dictionaries. {moi'o} is fine but lengthy. For now I ended using {de'i li pi'e PA} for months and {de'i li pi'e pi'e PA} for years. One of course could invent a shorter cmavo instead of {pi'e} but this two-syllableness is not a problem for some dialects. (URLs of the entries are listed below.) > > Officially, {mas-n-re} and {mas-n-rei} are considered to be stage-3 > fu'ivla, and they have the same problem as {PA-masti}/{PA-ma'i} type lujvo, > that {malsi} (not even {masti}) should form the main place structure. > Actually, only {masnre} and {masnrei} have the form of stage-3 fu'ivla > among the above mentioned zi'evla. The others are in stage-4 form which > produces no similar problem. If I used 'l'-hyphen instead of 'n', they > would have been all in stage-4 form, but I prefer 'snr'-string that is > easier to pronounce than 'slr'. > > {masn[PA]} is defined as follows: > > $x_1$ se detri li [PA] noi sinxa lo [PA] moi be lu'i ro da poi masti li pa > gi'e pagbu $x_2$ noi nanca li pa lu'u ku'o $x_3$ boi $x_4$ > > $x_1$ (event/state) is in the [PA-th month/...] of a year $x_2$ at > location $x_3$, by calendar $x_4$. > > {masnjau} may mean Undecimber in 46 BC ( > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_calendar#Realignment_of_the_year ), > Adar II on the Hebrew calendar or the intercalary month on any lunisolar > calendar. > {masnrei} (ja {masnxei}) may mean Duodecimber in 46 BC. > {masnvai} was created just for consistency. > You forgot about 5 extra days in Egyptian (12 x 30 + 5) and 4 extra days in Baha'i calendars (19 x 19 + 4). Should them be masnjau? > > examples: > lo cabna cu masnci lo nanca noi se detri li renopamu ku'o mi la gregoris > i > da masnjau lo nanca noi se detri lo muzezevo ku'o zo'e lo xebro > i > lo detke'u be lo nunmro be la gandis noi banli cu masnpa > > > What in the case that the thirteenth month is inserted between for example > the sixth and the seventh? I'm not sure, the lojban translation may depend > on $x_4$, say {1,2,3,4,5,6,13,7,8,9,10,11,12} or > {1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13}, both are possible. > > On another planet, we might need the 16th or higher month, then just > create {masnpaxa} and so on. > > For the same reason, {PA-dei} type lujvo seem not to be very suitable for > Monday, Tuesday etc., though I have not yet inserted the corresponding > zi'evla into la jbovlaste. > Note that here I oppose mapping number 1 to Monday since this may confuse a lot of people, notable speaking Portuguese. I ended using {lurdei} system. > If some of you agree to my idea, I will create similar zi'evla in the > following form: > {jednpa} for "the first day of a week", > {jefnpa} for "the first week of a month", > {detnpa} for "the first day of a month", etc. > > > ni'o > URLs of the entries of month names: > http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/masnpa > http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/masnre > http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/masnci > http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/masnvo > http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/masnmu > http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/masnxa > http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/masnze > http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/masnbi > http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/masnso > http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/masndau > http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/masnfei > http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/masngai > http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/masnjau > http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/masnrei > http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/masnxei > http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/masnvai > > mu'o > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "BPFK" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BPFK" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --f46d04428b9cea8774051087a9e4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


2015-03-05 12:32 GMT+03:00 guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com><= /span>:
I think {PA-masti} or {PA= -ma'i} type lujvo or the derived fu'ivla are not very suitable for = January, February etc., because the latters are rather related to {detri} o= r {detke'u}, a position on a calendar

=
Earlier I called this splicing time intervals.
https:= //groups.google.com/d/topic/lojban/xfawt6XTkW4/discussion

{citsi= }+masti+number were suggested instead since {citsi} is indeed a splicing ti= me interval gismu.
=C2=A0
=
, while {masti} means a duration according to a calendar system. In ot= her words, {la'o zoi January zoi la'o zoi March zoi dunli lo ka mas= ti li pa la gregoris}. Any lujvo constructed from {masti se detri be li pa}= would be suitable, but it seems too long for frequent use. So I've jus= t created a series of zi'evla for month names in la jbovlaste. Vote up = or down as you like.

zi'evla created:
masnpa masnre masnci masnvo masnmu masnxa masnze masnbi masnso masndau ma= snfei masngai masnjau masnrei (ja masnxei) masnvai=C2=A0

I wanted to create them in the form of {PAgmese} = =C2=A0where -g- is for Gregorian however this requires multiplying entities= and doesn't solve the problem of "tomorrow", "next hour= " etc.
Also this isnot a solutions of when saying "In y= ear 2000". Shall we create thousands of new fu'ivla for each splic= ing year?
We could if we assume that they are regular and thus ar= en't needed to be added into dictionaries.

{mo= i'o} is fine but lengthy.

For now I ended usin= g {de'i li pi'e PA} for months and {de'i li pi'e pi'e P= A} for years. One of course could invent a shorter cmavo instead of {pi'= ;e} but this two-syllableness is not a problem for some dialects.

(URLs of the entries are = listed below.)

Officially, {mas-n-re} and {mas-n-r= ei} are considered to be stage-3 fu'ivla, and they have the same proble= m as {PA-masti}/{PA-ma'i} type lujvo, that {malsi} (not even {masti}) s= hould form the main place structure. Actually, only {masnre} and {masnrei} = have the form of stage-3 fu'ivla among the above mentioned zi'evla.= The others are in stage-4 form which produces no similar problem. If I use= d 'l'-hyphen instead of 'n', they would have been all in st= age-4 form, but I prefer 'snr'-string that is easier to pronounce t= han 'slr'.=C2=A0

{masn[PA]} is defined as = follows:

$x_1$ se detri li [PA] noi sinxa lo [PA] = moi be lu'i ro da poi masti li pa gi'e pagbu $x_2$ noi nanca li pa = lu'u ku'o $x_3$ boi $x_4$

$x_1$ (event/sta= te) is in the [PA-th month/...] of a year $x_2$ at location $x_3$, by calen= dar $x_4$.

{masnjau} may mean Undecimber in 46 BC = ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_calendar#Real= ignment_of_the_year ), Adar II on the Hebrew calendar or the intercalar= y month on any lunisolar calendar.=C2=A0
{masnrei} (ja {masnxei})= may mean Duodecimber in 46 BC.
{masnvai} was created just for co= nsistency.
You forgot about 5 extra days in Eg= yptian (12 x 30 + 5) and 4 extra days in Baha'i calendars (19 x 19 + 4)= . Should them be masnjau?
=C2=A0

examples:
lo cabna cu masnci lo nanc= a noi se detri li renopamu ku'o mi la gregoris
i
da= masnjau lo nanca noi se detri lo muzezevo ku'o zo'e lo xebro
=
i
lo detke'u be lo nunmro be la gandis noi banli cu masn= pa


What in the case that the thirte= enth month is inserted between for example the sixth and the seventh? I'= ;m not sure, the lojban translation may depend on $x_4$, say {1,2,3,4,5,6,1= 3,7,8,9,10,11,12} or {1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13}, both are possible.

On another planet, we might need the 16th or higher = month, then just create {masnpaxa} and so on.

For = the same reason, {PA-dei} type lujvo seem not to be very suitable for Monda= y, Tuesday etc., though I have not yet inserted the corresponding zi'ev= la into la jbovlaste.

Note that= here I oppose mapping number 1 to Monday since this may confuse a lot of p= eople, notable speaking Portuguese.
I ended using {lurdei} system= .


If some of you agree to my idea, I will create similar zi'evla in the = following form:
{jednpa} for "the first day of a week",=
{jefnpa} for "the first week of a month",
{d= etnpa} for "the first day of a month", etc.=C2=A0

--
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;BPFK" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bpfk-list= +unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com.
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For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--f46d04428b9cea8774051087a9e4--