Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::236 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c05::236;
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <5515264B.1030009@gmx.de>
References: <CAO7bV+je-d2vPHm-7AzaQgmgb2K91_Ye2V4ODPEv4oMGmUZAXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO7tK2eVfXoFUhqM9jEEGk51_GYOgv4xDu8utyccTV=-pWFM0w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO7bV+jTJ3m=sUuSvdc1cz9bvKcEiaxQXSVa-iLQ9vsKBxDPQw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO7tK2dJ49WvJ9vJQqonfOVx2eXyJCoi-xS6B5RXEru-bhDkaw@mail.gmail.com>
	<5515264B.1030009@gmx.de>
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 19:34:44 -0300
Message-ID: <CAO7tK2dgF40J8Cvo7KpEawRPsjXjpxD6YWqKbdQ2NSG=Atu1HA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [bpfk] Improvements to fragments in ilmentufa parser
From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jorge_Llamb=C3=ADas?= <jjllambias@gmail.com>
To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bb041022b158f05124cbd24
Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com
Sender: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
X-Spam_score: -1.6
X-Spam_score_int: -15
X-Spam_bar: -
Content-Length: 5175

--047d7bb041022b158f05124cbd24
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 6:43 AM, selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de> wrote:

>
> I'm actually a big fan of fragments; I use {to be} and {to noi} a lot,


Yes, I forgot about fragments within to-toi, I have used many of those too.
They still make me uncomfortable though. Something like fu'e-fu'o would
seem to make more sense for that kind of thing.


> and it's also nice when you want to add onto someone else's sentence, e.g.
>
> A: mi viska lo pendo
> B: be ma
> A: la .djan.
>

Could B say "be ma" if A had said "mi viska lo pendo ku"? or "mi viska lo
pendo vau"?

Even fragment {na} is sort of semi-common as a slang thing; in the
> experimental grammar it was extended to allow multiple NA in a row as a
> fragment as well.
>

If it was tanru-unit that was elidable, as gleki is suggesting, this would
be just a case of "na [COhE]".

I actually frequently miss a method to use a fragmental ?{to JOI SUMTI
> toi}, but sadly it would clash with {.i joi}, so I'm stuck with {to ri JOI
> SUMTI toi), which doesn't always work.
>

It would work with a fu'e-fu'o type parenthetical, instead of a to-toi type.


> I find fragments very useful for spontaneous human speech.
>

I don't doubt that human speech is full of "broken sentences". I just don't
like much the way "fragment" is implemented in Lojban's grammar.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BPFK" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--047d7bb041022b158f05124cbd24
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 6:43 AM, selpa&#39;i <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:seladwa@gmx.de" target=3D"_blank">seladwa@gmx.de</a>&gt;</span> =
wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bord=
er-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D""><br></span>
I&#39;m actually a big fan of fragments; I use {to be} and {to noi} a lot, =
</blockquote><div><br></div><div>Yes, I forgot about fragments within to-to=
i, I have used many of those too. They still make me uncomfortable though. =
Something like fu&#39;e-fu&#39;o would seem to make more sense for that kin=
d of thing.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">and it&#=
39;s also nice when you want to add onto someone else&#39;s sentence, e.g.<=
br>
<br>
A: mi viska lo pendo<br>
B: be ma<br>
A: la .djan.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Could B say &quot;be ma&qu=
ot; if A had said &quot;mi viska lo pendo ku&quot;? or &quot;mi viska lo pe=
ndo vau&quot;?</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Even fragment {na} is sort of semi-common as a slang thing; in the experime=
ntal grammar it was extended to allow multiple NA in a row as a fragment as=
 well.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>If it was tanru-unit that was el=
idable, as gleki is suggesting, this would be just a case of &quot;na [COhE=
]&quot;.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I actually frequently miss a method to use a fragmental ?{to JOI SUMTI toi}=
, but sadly it would clash with {.i joi}, so I&#39;m stuck with {to ri JOI =
SUMTI toi), which doesn&#39;t always work.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><=
div>It would work with a fu&#39;e-fu&#39;o type parenthetical, instead of a=
 to-toi type.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I find fragments very useful for spontaneous human speech.<br></blockquote>=
<div><br></div><div>I don&#39;t doubt that human speech is full of &quot;br=
oken sentences&quot;. I just don&#39;t like much the way &quot;fragment&quo=
t; is implemented in Lojban&#39;s grammar.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>m=
u&#39;o mi&#39;e xorxes</div><div><br></div></div></div></div>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;BPFK&quot; group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to <a href=3D"mailto:bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">bpfk-list=
+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:bpfk-list@googlegrou=
ps.com">bpfk-list@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list">ht=
tp://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list</a>.<br />
For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/optout">http=
s://groups.google.com/d/optout</a>.<br />

--047d7bb041022b158f05124cbd24--