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Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2015 21:47:00 -0300
Message-ID: <CAO7tK2dw0-13Pf2Pq2uytakb6zXCJNvp39OhVg1Uuq9Ef1Ok=g@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [bpfk] Proposal: sumti must always be tagged with "tag" even if
 it's elidible.
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On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 9:02 PM, selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de> wrote:

> la .xorxes. cu cusku di'e
>
>> What does the SOI term mean? Is there a new proposed meaning for "soi"?
>> Is it something like "lo poi'i"?
>>
>
> See: http://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=new_soi


ua je'e .i'e .i simlu lo ka xamgu .i simsa lo'u se kai lo ka le'u

 BTW, are there any plans to get rid of SA, or are people still in love
>> with it? It makes the grammar so much harder to read.
>>
>
> Almost all uses of {sa} are in {sa .i}, so maybe we could simplify {sa} by
> making it just remove the current sentence entirely.
>

Even that would have its complications, but it would be better than the
pehe_sa's and cehe-sa's I'm seeing now.

Another option would be to make SA+sentence or SA+term or maybe SA+word a
> free modifier (I'm not sure how exactly that would play out though).
>

That wouldn't work to "fix" broken sentences, which seems to be one of its
main uses.

In any case, I agree that SA adds a lot of annoying complexity to the
> grammar (even though it's kind of a nice mechanism to have).


The original SA-"any selma'o" was unwieldly because of the huge number of
selma'o that Lojban has, but at least in some sense was not arbitrary. The
current version requires knowing which constructs are SA-erasable and which
are not, which seems like a fairly arbitrary collection. Maybe I'm just too
prejudiced against it, but I really don't like it.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 9:02 PM, selpa&#39;i <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:seladwa@gmx.de" target=3D"_blank">seladwa@gmx.de</a>&gt;</span=
> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">la .xorxes. cu cusku di&#39;e<sp=
an class=3D""><br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
What does the SOI term mean? Is there a new proposed meaning for &quot;soi&=
quot;?<br>
Is it something like &quot;lo poi&#39;i&quot;?<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
See: <a href=3D"http://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=3Dnew_soi" target=3D"_=
blank">http://mw.lojban.org/index.<u></u>php?title=3Dnew_soi</a></blockquot=
e><div><br></div><div>ua je&#39;e .i&#39;e .i simlu lo ka xamgu .i simsa lo=
&#39;u se kai lo ka le&#39;u=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding=
-left:1ex"><span class=3D"">
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
BTW, are there any plans to get rid of SA, or are people still in love<br>
with it? It makes the grammar so much harder to read.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
Almost all uses of {sa} are in {sa .i}, so maybe we could simplify {sa} by =
making it just remove the current sentence entirely.<br></blockquote><div><=
br></div><div>Even that would have its complications, but it would be bette=
r than the pehe_sa&#39;s and cehe-sa&#39;s I&#39;m seeing now.=C2=A0</div><=
div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Another option would be to make SA+sentence or SA+term or maybe SA+word a f=
ree modifier (I&#39;m not sure how exactly that would play out though).<br>=
</blockquote><div><br></div><div>That wouldn&#39;t work to &quot;fix&quot; =
broken sentences, which seems to be one of its main uses.</div><div><br></d=
iv><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left=
:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
In any case, I agree that SA adds a lot of annoying complexity to the gramm=
ar (even though it&#39;s kind of a nice mechanism to have).</blockquote><di=
v><br></div><div>The original SA-&quot;any selma&#39;o&quot; was unwieldly =
because of the huge number of selma&#39;o that Lojban has, but at least in =
some sense was not arbitrary. The current version requires knowing which co=
nstructs are SA-erasable and which are not, which seems like a fairly arbit=
rary collection. Maybe I&#39;m just too prejudiced against it, but I really=
 don&#39;t like it.</div><div><br></div><div>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e xorxes=C2=A0=
</div></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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