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From: Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 17:52:03 -0400
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Subject: [bpfk] FA as a TAG (Was: One cannot refer to inner nodes in Lojban PEG)
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I'm making a separate thread out of this because I'm going on a tangent
here.

On 7 April 2015 at 15:04, <cowan@ccil.org> wrote:

> Terms can have FA or tags equally well, but we don't want to merge
> FA with BAI generally, to avoid things like "se fa" and ".i fa bo",
> which are nonsense.


I agree that {se fa} has no clear interpretation upon first examination.
However, {.i fa bo} can be interpreted like any other {.i TAG bo} construct.

.i broda .i TAG bo brode -> .i broda TAG lo su'u brode

Hence,
.i broda .i fa bo brode -> .i broda fa lo su'u brode

This provides us with another way to do essentially what {la'e di'e} does.
For instance,

.i mi pu pensi la'e di'e .i lo mi bruna cu cmalu mutce -> .i mi pu pensi
.ifebo lo mi bruna cu cmalu mutce
I was thinking about this: my brother is very short.

Taking this idea to the extreme, we can conceive of a somewhat silly
higher-order predicate -- call it {brodrfV} for now -- whose x1 is an
arbitrary sumti and whose x2 is a nullary predicate supplied with than fV
having the value of the x1. We can define {brodrfV} with the following
statement.

.i ko'a brodrfV lo du'u broda <=> broda fV ko'a

We can derive some obvious results from this statement.

.i lo brodrfV be lo du'u fV ko'a broda === ko'a
.i fV ko'a broda === .i fi'o brodrfV ko'a broda

This gives us a way to pick out sumti from du'u-abstractions, an otherwise
arduous task for the fancylojban programmer/speaker.

Furthermore, this gives us a way to interpret {se fV}. Since {fV === fi'o
brodrfV}, we have {se fV === fi'o se brodrfV}.

For instance
.i lo mi bruna cu cmalu mutce se fe lo du'u mi pu pensi -> mi pu pensi lo
du'u lo mi bruna cu cmalu mutce

I've basically hijacked FA to recreate bridi relative clauses.

I'm sure there're plenty of holes in this idea since I cooked it up in just
a few minutes. Feel free to come up with weird cases and we can examine
them.

Do I want this to be a feature of standard Lojban? Not necessarily. Do I
think it's a cool idea? Sure. I hope you do too :)

.i mi'e la tsani mu'o

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<div dir=3D"ltr">I&#39;m making a separate thread out of this because I&#39=
;m going on a tangent here.<br><div><br>On 7 April 2015 at 15:04,  <span di=
r=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cowan@ccil.org" target=3D"_blank">cowan@cci=
l.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gma=
il_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bord=
er-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Terms can have FA or tags equally =
well, but we don&#39;t want to merge<br>
FA with BAI generally, to avoid things like &quot;se fa&quot; and &quot;.i =
fa bo&quot;,<br>
which are nonsense.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>I agree that {se fa} ha=
s no clear interpretation upon first examination. However, {.i fa bo} can b=
e interpreted like any other {.i TAG bo} construct.<br><br></div><div>.i br=
oda .i TAG bo brode -&gt; .i broda TAG lo su&#39;u brode<br></div><div><br>=
Hence,<br></div><div>.i broda .i fa bo brode -&gt; .i broda fa lo su&#39;u =
brode<br><br></div><div>This provides us with another way to do essentially=
 what {la&#39;e di&#39;e} does. For instance,<br><br></div><div>.i mi pu pe=
nsi la&#39;e di&#39;e .i lo mi bruna cu cmalu mutce -&gt; .i mi pu pensi .i=
febo lo mi bruna cu cmalu mutce<br></div><div>I was thinking about this: my=
 brother is very short.<br><br></div><div>Taking this idea to the extreme, =
we can conceive of a somewhat silly higher-order predicate -- call it {brod=
rfV} for now -- whose x1 is an arbitrary sumti and whose x2 is a nullary pr=
edicate supplied with than fV having the value of the x1. We can define {br=
odrfV} with the following statement.<br><br></div><div>.i ko&#39;a brodrfV =
lo du&#39;u broda &lt;=3D&gt; broda fV ko&#39;a<br><br></div><div>We can de=
rive some obvious results from this statement.<br><br></div><div>.i lo brod=
rfV be lo du&#39;u fV ko&#39;a broda =3D=3D=3D ko&#39;a<br></div><div>.i fV=
 ko&#39;a broda =3D=3D=3D .i fi&#39;o brodrfV ko&#39;a broda<br></div><div>=
<br></div><div>This gives us a way to pick out sumti from du&#39;u-abstract=
ions, an otherwise arduous task for the fancylojban programmer/speaker.<br>=
<br></div><div>Furthermore, this gives us a way to interpret {se fV}. Since=
 {fV =3D=3D=3D fi&#39;o brodrfV}, we have {se fV =3D=3D=3D fi&#39;o se brod=
rfV}.<br><br></div><div>For instance<br></div><div>.i lo mi bruna cu cmalu =
mutce se fe lo du&#39;u mi pu pensi -&gt; mi pu pensi lo du&#39;u lo mi bru=
na cu cmalu mutce<br><br></div><div>I&#39;ve basically hijacked FA to recre=
ate bridi relative clauses.<br><br></div><div>I&#39;m sure there&#39;re ple=
nty of holes in this idea since I cooked it up in just a few minutes. Feel =
free to come up with weird cases and we can examine them.<br><br></div><div=
>Do I want this to be a feature of standard Lojban? Not necessarily. Do I t=
hink it&#39;s a cool idea? Sure. I hope you do too :)<br><br></div><div>.i =
mi&#39;e la tsani mu&#39;o<br></div></div></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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