Received: from mail-la0-f55.google.com ([209.85.215.55]:34727) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1YeO4m-00025b-00; Sat, 04 Apr 2015 06:25:31 -0700 Received: by lamq1 with SMTP id q1sf31160803lam.1; Sat, 04 Apr 2015 06:25:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=l1lfDzetmSoGvDxSEjGZE8YMPBfRjMc6kU+w2wXB4jk=; b=Bc2+tEuYQnDV0ms7Z75BVg6inuBlczmeQTfj+AjN+R87ym5gBDi02FS++WZ9PM6Wal 3Blt/F95yZdygDJXy+iJoLyLr4T4mPTz4e4i80BP5yp0nhwr4SZ+JbkrJyRkmaT1NoKJ P5ISosGjrhHgt80ocCs4Lr4tS9eqsFOXs41I3sItCla697fWW9Bck/N3c8PAfKKx0qT3 gTtHHEhb05anqx1TMtRQKHQV4dLibJ3CbppBTwKK6VgQwBgj41ThbFU1FJulWLiaMhYL XFQpVzUiskzgBZInegVFqxk/hs/5XYVEEhRnM8GutVC4xATWabhEXAawk4KSgqLZAssx MtjA== X-Received: by 10.152.21.35 with SMTP id s3mr86106lae.1.1428153920877; Sat, 04 Apr 2015 06:25:20 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.152.28.100 with SMTP id a4ls410248lah.23.gmail; Sat, 04 Apr 2015 06:25:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.118.162 with SMTP id kn2mr1657835lbb.22.1428153920059; Sat, 04 Apr 2015 06:25:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wg0-x22e.google.com (mail-wg0-x22e.google.com. [2a00:1450:400c:c00::22e]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id bz6si267073wib.3.2015.04.04.06.25.20 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 04 Apr 2015 06:25:20 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::22e as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c00::22e; Received: by mail-wg0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id a20so129783635wgr.3 for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2015 06:25:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.94.164 with SMTP id dd4mr14215234wjb.56.1428153919935; Sat, 04 Apr 2015 06:25:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.27.56.72 with HTTP; Sat, 4 Apr 2015 06:25:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <87a8631e-1155-4a74-a1c4-47c79a5fe96f@googlegroups.com> Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2015 10:25:19 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bpfk] selma'o ZEhEI and PEG From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jorge_Llamb=C3=ADas?= To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bb04102151f6a0512e5ffcf X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::22e as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 972099695765 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_bar: - Content-Length: 7189 --047d7bb04102151f6a0512e5ffcf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 5:55 AM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote: > > 2015-04-03 23:59 GMT+03:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas : > >> >> Like any lujvo, it could be defined as anything, it could mean "x1 says >> 'hi!' to x2", for example. In actual usage, most of the uses of "zei" ar= e >> with a brivla as the second word, so I don't think it would be a great l= oss >> to restrict zei-compounds to only be brivla when the last element is a >> brivla. >> > > It'd be ideologically not lujvo but some kind of fu'ivla since the place > structure magically comes out of nothing. > Is "kemke'e" ideologically not a lujvo, then? It doesn't matter whether we call it a lujvo or not, "coi zei coi" is now a brivla and with the change it will stop being a brivla. It is obviously a compound too, so not calling it a lujvo seems arbitrary. I'm not sure it's an essential property of lujvo that its place structure has to come out of its components, even if it usually does. > ni'o as for your PEG modifications on zei/ze'ei I need time. I'm not sure > if the goal of finishing PEG is close (then I'll try implementing them) o= r > not (and then I probably think of this tool > instead). > That woud be good, it looks a lot like this: http://pegjs.org/online but when I try to paste the camxes-exp.js.peg file in there the page freezes for me, maybe it's too large for it. As for ze'ei in SI, a few more issues we need to be aware of: (1) "si" is allowed at the beginning of text, "zei" is not. Maybe we could just disallow "si" there since it doesn't mean anything. (2) a text can end with "word si". Do we want to allow a text to end with "word ze'ei" as well? This could be solved by either requiring "fa'o", or restoring an elidable "fa'o" there. (3) multiple "si" work back to multiple words: "da de di si si si do" leaves just "do" standing. Do we want "da de di ze'ei ze'ei ze'ei do" to be just one sumti as well? This would be a change from how "zei" works now. (Not necessarily a bad change.) mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= BPFK" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --047d7bb04102151f6a0512e5ffcf Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On S= at, Apr 4, 2015 at 5:55 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmai= l.com> wrote:
2015-04-03 23:59 G= MT+03:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas <jjllambias@gmail.com>:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;pa= dding-left:1ex">

Like any lujvo, it could be defined as = anything, it could mean "x1 says 'hi!' to x2", for exampl= e. In actual usage, most of the uses of "zei" are with a brivla a= s the second word, so I don't think it would be a great loss to restric= t zei-compounds to only be brivla when the last element is a brivla.
<= /blockquote>

It'd be ideologically not lujvo but some k= ind of fu'ivla since the place structure magically comes out of nothing= .

Is "kemke'e" i= deologically not a lujvo, then? It doesn't matter whether we call it a = lujvo or not, "coi zei coi" is now a brivla and with the change i= t will stop being a brivla. It is obviously a compound too, so not calling = it a lujvo seems arbitrary. I'm not sure it's an essential property= of lujvo that its place structure has to come out of its components, even = if it usually does.=C2=A0
=C2=A0
ni'o as for your PEG modifications = on zei/ze'ei I need time. I'm not sure if the goal of finishing PEG= is close (then I'll try implementing them) or not (and then I probably= think of this tool=C2=A0instead).
=
That woud be good, it looks a lot like this: http://pegjs.org/online
but when I t= ry to paste the camxes-exp.js.peg file in there the page freezes for me, ma= ybe it's too large for it.

As for ze'ei in= SI, a few more issues we need to be aware of:

(1)= "si" is allowed at the beginning of text, "zei" is not= . Maybe we could just disallow "si" there since it doesn't me= an anything.

(2) a text can end with "word si= ". Do we want to allow a text to end with "word ze'ei" a= s well? This could be solved by either requiring "fa'o", or r= estoring an elidable "fa'o" there.

(= 3) multiple "si" work back to multiple words: "da de di si s= i si do" leaves just "do" standing. Do we want "da de d= i ze'ei ze'ei ze'ei do" to be just one sumti as well? This= would be a change from how "zei" works now. (Not necessarily a b= ad change.)

mu'o mi'e xorxes

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;BPFK" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bpfk-list= +unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at ht= tp://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--047d7bb04102151f6a0512e5ffcf--