Received: from mail-wi0-f184.google.com ([209.85.212.184]:34022) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1YiHyO-0005Qe-HM; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 00:43:04 -0700 Received: by wivr20 with SMTP id r20sf14308393wiv.1; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 00:42:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=iuRpwBplC+S6U8RtD47mgIV8EzWKlJtc8vWHe5ja8lo=; b=EKPqRy4FTp95+9/8xq5eamgbb6P3bEG9EL0EbJDQifgSnxaRF061facYm7oPZWmg1h iBmvk2AqGe5vos7sVoagoVKxN1zZ6Ba6P89LYejXdzLcPZC1W9XDSUikgALfQ1oJl94j zWUi6JIrU2C4uTTC8e+cL9vwpKqOH1lLF9iFXu1Z9h+XNAqyJLMjJENstaK8Ro6ch+ct fKT17FiRnysj9a8uvCsFUXE+BPIEhUjAVxRJ9iCFkhZnq7eDDoYC7+SjQfQUNujBq4ao MkGcYX6A55KdAP0Sdgpokau/o5GSi5N0BwmEkM0zEnX1FIRc5H3oqgmmcPqOUhb80FgU MYyw== X-Received: by 10.152.229.133 with SMTP id sq5mr267526lac.24.1429083773359; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 00:42:53 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.152.204.69 with SMTP id kw5ls138515lac.86.gmail; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 00:42:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.181.166 with SMTP id dx6mr4387829lbc.17.1429083772651; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 00:42:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x232.google.com (mail-wi0-x232.google.com. [2a00:1450:400c:c05::232]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id eg1si241180wic.1.2015.04.15.00.42.52 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 15 Apr 2015 00:42:52 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::232 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c05::232; Received: by mail-wi0-x232.google.com with SMTP id k4so142978913wiz.1; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 00:42:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.194.9.98 with SMTP id y2mr47833890wja.85.1429083772413; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 00:42:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.194.240.197 with HTTP; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 00:42:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Gleki Arxokuna Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 10:42:32 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: [bpfk] JVS limitations on entering word combinations impede Lojban development To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com, "lojban@googlegroups.com" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b5d8dab9beec60513be7efc X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::232 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 972099695765 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_bar: - Content-Length: 3922 --047d7b5d8dab9beec60513be7efc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 *Not very relevant to BPFK (the committe for the development of Lojban) work. *But very relevant to how Lojbanists begin to act due to jbovlaste's (JVS) purely technical limitations: 1. {lo ve'i cmana} = hill 2. {lo ve'u xamsi} = ocean 3. {lo ba'o presidente} = ex-president. Or {lo ba'o jatna} if you prefer only core wordlist. Got that? Every English translation is one word! JVS doesn't allow adding {TAG BRIVLA} to the dictionary which partially explains why lujvo became so popular (of course enforced by the initial noralujv list and notes in gimste). Clearly, this second non-lujvo way exists but it can't compete with lujvo way since one cannot add {ve'u xamsi} to the dictionary but one can and already did add {braxamsi} to it. *Not adding words to jbovlaste dooms them to oblivion in IRC or mailing list logs.* Tatoeba.org is free from these limitations. I'm thinking of creating more usable tools to search in its up-to-date dumps (again a purely technical issue). However, just note that technical issues can potentially change human behavior even if the product (=Lojban here) is much more powerful than what its auxiliary tools (=JVS) think. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BPFK" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --047d7b5d8dab9beec60513be7efc Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
*Not very relevant to BPFK (the committe for the developme= nt of Lojban) work.
*But very relevant to how Lojbanists begin to act d= ue to jbovlaste's (JVS) purely technical limitations:

1. {lo ve&= #39;i cmana} =3D hill
2. {lo ve'u xamsi} =3D ocean
3. {lo= ba'o presidente} =3D ex-president. Or {lo ba'o jatna} if you prefe= r only core wordlist.

Got that? Every English tran= slation is one word!

JVS doesn't allow adding = {TAG BRIVLA} to the dictionary which partially explains why lujvo became so= popular (of course enforced by the initial noralujv list and notes in gims= te).

Clearly, this second non-lujvo way exists but= it can't compete with lujvo way since one cannot add {ve'u xamsi} = to the dictionary but one can and already did add {braxamsi} to it.
Not adding words to jbovlaste dooms them to oblivion in IRC or ma= iling list logs.

Tatoeba.org is free from thes= e limitations. I'm thinking of creating more usable tools to search in = its up-to-date dumps (again a purely technical issue).

=
However, just note that technical issues can potentially change human = behavior even if the product (=3DLojban here) is much more powerful than wh= at its auxiliary tools (=3DJVS) think.

--
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bpfk-list= +unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at ht= tp://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list.
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