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Date: Wed, 27 May 2015 22:07:28 +0200
From: Ilmen <ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com>
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Subject: [bpfk] Re: Lojban word definitions style guidelines
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I don't know how much dictionary definition guidelines are relevant to=20
the BPFK, but for lack of a better alternative, I've sent Naours'=20
proposal here, to the BPFK list.

Indeed, even if the BPFK were to publish official definition guidelines=20
or recommendations, this wouldn't magically change all the existing=20
definitions ; however this may be a good idea in order that future/newer=20
definitions have a nicer and more consistent style.

Also, it would be nice to have official recommendations on how to=20
represent sumti slots in Lujvo definitions. As of now, the x+N system,=20
the gismu_first_letter+N system and a mix of both systems are currently=20
in use, which make lujvo definitions' style inconsistent across the=20
dictionary.

As a side note, it's not yet possible to attach a natural language=20
translation to Lojban sentence examples in Jbovlaste, so there may also=20
be technical hindrances to such a proposal. However it's still possible=20
to put translated examples directly into the notes field, although it's=20
conceptually less nice.

mi'e la .ilmen. mu'o


On 27/05/2015 21:41, Ilmen wrote:
> coi ro do
>
> A couple of weeks ago, Naours (aka Xelan) suggested to make an=20
> official set of style guidelines for Lojban word definitions, in order=20
> to have definitions that look better and have a consistent style=20
> across the dictionary.
>
> Those guidelines would also aim at reducing the use of slashes '/' in=20
> definitions, favoring the use of the gloss fields for listing natural=20
> language equivalent words or expressions. The rational for this is=20
> that slashes make definitions more clunky and less pretty, and the=20
> result can be awkward in languages with inflectional agreements.
>
> Below is Naours' proposal, translated from French and slightly=20
> modified/adjusted by me (hopefully without misrepresenting the idea of=20
> its author).
>
> mu'o mi'e la .ilmen.
>
> =E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=
=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=
=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=
=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=
=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92
>
> *_Propositions:_*
>
> *** Most important points:
> *=E2=86=92* Each definition must have a clear description. Slashes '/' sh=
ould=20
> be avoided as much as possible, as they hinder comprehension and make=20
> definitions look awkward.
> *=E2=86=92* Each definition must have a simple description: the descripti=
on is=20
> written using simple terms, even if that leads to more verbosity.
> *=E2=86=92* Each definition must have a description as generic as possibl=
e:=20
> only one term per concept, as generic as possible for encompassing the=20
> other appropriate terms.
> *=E2=86=92* Every terms corresponding to the described concept are record=
ed in=20
> the gloss fields.
> *=E2=86=92* The etymologies are presented along with the definition in or=
der=20
> to retain the term and its origin.
> *=E2=86=92* The various sumti types must be specified between parentheses=
:
>     =E2=80=94 Proposition (bridi abstractor - lo du'u)
>     =E2=80=94 Event (action or state; event abstractor - lo nu)
>     =E2=80=94 Property/dimension (property abstractor - lo ka)
>     =E2=80=94 Quantity (quantity abstractor - lo ni)
>
> *** Points that may need to be further discussed:
> *=E2=86=92* The sumti are described using singular definite articles.
>
> *_Expected results example:_*
>
> balni (gimsu)
> Description: x1 is a platform overhanging on facade x2
> Gloss: {balcony, overhang, ledge, shelf}
> Exemple 1:
>   (English): This is a balcony
>   (Lojban): ti balni
> Exemple 2:
>   (English): The balcony of this building
>   (Lojban): lo balni be lo vi dinju
> Etymology:
>   Chinese: iantai
>   English: balkani
>   Hindi: baramda
>   Spanish: balkon
>   Russian: balkon
>   Arabic: curfa
> Notes:
>
> Some points are rather advanced, and it will maybe be necessary to=20
> modify/improve/remove them.
>
> mu'o mi'e la .na'urs.
>
>
>

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<html>
  <head>
    <meta content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" http-equiv=3D"Content-Type=
">
  </head>
  <body text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">
    I don't know how much dictionary definition guidelines are relevant
    to the BPFK, but for lack of a better alternative, I've sent Naours'
    proposal here, to the BPFK list.<br>
    <br>
    Indeed, even if the BPFK were to publish official definition
    guidelines or recommendations, this wouldn't magically change all
    the existing definitions ; however this may be a good idea in order
    that future/newer definitions have a nicer and more consistent
    style.<br>
    <br>
    Also, it would be nice to have official recommendations on how to
    represent sumti slots in Lujvo definitions. As of now, the x+N
    system, the gismu_first_letter+N system and a mix of both systems
    are currently in use, which make lujvo definitions' style
    inconsistent across the dictionary.<br>
    <br>
    As a side note, it's not yet possible to attach a natural language
    translation to Lojban sentence examples in Jbovlaste, so there may
    also be technical hindrances to such a proposal. However it's still
    possible to put translated examples directly into the notes field,
    although it's conceptually less nice.<br>
    <br>
    mi'e la .ilmen. mu'o<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 27/05/2015 21:41, Ilmen wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite=3D"mid:55661E01.8030707@gmail.com" type=3D"cite">
      <meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf=
-8">
      coi ro do<br>
      <br>
      <div class=3D"moz-forward-container"> A couple of weeks ago, Naours
        (aka Xelan) suggested to make an official set of style
        guidelines for Lojban word definitions, in order to have
        definitions that look better and have a consistent style across
        the dictionary.<br>
        <br>
        Those guidelines would also aim at reducing the use of slashes
        '/' in definitions, favoring the use of the gloss fields for
        listing natural language equivalent words or expressions. The
        rational for this is that slashes make definitions more clunky
        and less pretty, and the result can be awkward in languages with
        inflectional agreements.<br>
        <br>
        Below is Naours' proposal, translated from French and slightly
        modified/adjusted by me (hopefully without misrepresenting the
        idea of its author).<br>
        <br>
        mu'o mi'e la .ilmen.<br>
        <br>
        =E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=
=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=
=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=
=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=
=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92<br>
        <br>
        <b><u>Propositions:</u></b><br>
        <br>
        <b>*</b> Most important points:<br>
        <b>=E2=86=92</b> Each definition must have a clear description. Sla=
shes
        '/' should be avoided as much as possible, as they hinder
        comprehension and make definitions look awkward.<br>
        <b>=E2=86=92</b> Each definition must have a simple description: th=
e
        description is written using simple terms, even if that leads to
        more verbosity.<br>
        <b>=E2=86=92</b> Each definition must have a description as generic=
 as
        possible: only one term per concept, as generic as possible for
        encompassing the other appropriate terms.<br>
        <b>=E2=86=92</b> Every terms corresponding to the described concept=
 are
        recorded in the gloss fields.<br>
        <b>=E2=86=92</b> The etymologies are presented along with the defin=
ition
        in order to retain the term and its origin.<br>
        <b>=E2=86=92</b> The various sumti types must be specified between
        parentheses:<br>
        =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =E2=80=94 Proposition (bridi abstractor - lo du'=
u)<br>
        =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =E2=80=94 Event (action or state; event abstract=
or - lo nu)<br>
        =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =E2=80=94 Property/dimension (property abstracto=
r - lo ka)<br>
        =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =E2=80=94 Quantity (quantity abstractor - lo ni)=
<br>
        <br>
        <b>*</b> Points that may need to be further discussed:<br>
        <b>=E2=86=92</b> The sumti are described using singular definite
        articles.<br>
        <br>
        <b><u>Expected results example:</u></b><br>
        <br>
        balni (gimsu)<br>
        Description: x1 is a platform overhanging on facade x2<br>
        Gloss: {balcony, overhang, ledge, shelf}<br>
        Exemple 1:<br>
        =C2=A0 (English): This is a balcony<br>
        =C2=A0 (Lojban): ti balni<br>
        Exemple 2:<br>
        =C2=A0 (English): The balcony of this building<br>
        =C2=A0 (Lojban): lo balni be lo vi dinju<br>
        Etymology:<br>
        =C2=A0 Chinese: iantai<br>
        =C2=A0 English: balkani<br>
        =C2=A0 Hindi: baramda<br>
        =C2=A0 Spanish: balkon<br>
        =C2=A0 Russian: balkon<br>
        =C2=A0 Arabic: curfa<br>
        Notes:<br>
        <br>
        Some points are rather advanced, and it will maybe be necessary
        to modify/improve/remove them.<br>
        <br>
        mu'o mi'e la .na'urs.<br>
        <br>
        <br>
      </div>
      <br>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>

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