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Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2015 10:47:12 -0400
From: Alex Burka <durka42@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [bpfk] Grammar of letterals and numerals in {li}
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Agreed, the biggest question for me (beyond whether this is a good idea at =
all, zo'o zo'o nai) is what changes would be made to the grammar of LI? Wou=
ld it be able to take a pure-lerfu string, a pure-digit string, but not a m=
ixture? Or would we leave LI alone but create two new gadri selma'o that ta=
ke pure-lerfu and pure-digit, respectively?

mu'o mi'e durkavore

On June 2, 2015 at 5:34:15 AM, Gleki Arxokuna (gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com) =
wrote:

Namely, that mixed lerfu/number strings should be banned.

xorxe's vision quoted at the end of this message.

2015-05-31 20:51 GMT+03:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas=C2=A0<jjllambias@gmail.com>:


On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 2:09 PM, Spheniscine (la zipcpi)=C2=A0<spheniscine@=
gmail.com>=C2=A0wrote:
I've not heard of that proposal. Wouldn't that just break all uses of {xy p=
a} when talking about the definitions of words?=C2=A0

Those are "xy xi pa".

The contexts where we don't want digits and lerfu to mix (e.g. ".abu za'u r=
e'u cusku", "by re mei", "lo re bolci zo'u pa by xunre .i je pa by blanu", =
"xy xi pa dunda xy xi re xy xi ci" etc. are much much more common than the =
need for mixed strings, and having to use "boi" for those is a pain.

So they are to be currently:
abu boi za'u re'u cusku=C2=A0
i by boi re mei=C2=A0
i lo re bolci zo'u pa boi by xunre=C2=A0
.i je pa boi by blanu=C2=A0
i xy xi pa dunda xy xi re boi xy xi ci=C2=A0

I can agree that it can be a pain so this proposal may sound reasonable.

Besides, {me'o} still works, paralleling the use of strings for entry of IS=
O dates in programming languages. I just prefer {li} because
It's shorter
Dates and periods technically *are* numbers in a certain sense; arithmetic =
can be performed on them, despite the fact that in some ways they don't act=
 like real-numbers, due to the varying length of months and years.
"me'o" and "li" are in the same selma'o, so the issue is the same for both.

I can't agree with changing anything within {li}, however. {li} is for meks=
o which is a special subset of Lojban with its own grammar.

{by} as a anaphorical marker and {by} within {li} are two different entitie=
s.
Terminating {li} with {boi} or {lo'o} isn't that hard IMO.

But how would "(n+1.3)^(3.15*r^2)" be expressed under this new xorxe's prop=
osal then?
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<html><head><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style>=
</head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -web=
kit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"f=
ont-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: =
0px; line-height: auto;">Agreed, the biggest question for me (beyond whethe=
r this is a good idea at all, zo'o zo'o nai) is what changes would be made =
to the grammar of LI? Would it be able to take a pure-lerfu string, a pure-=
digit string, but not a mixture? Or would we leave LI alone but create two =
new gadri selma'o that take pure-lerfu and pure-digit, respectively?</div> =
<br> <div id=3D"bloop_sign_1433256308743994880" class=3D"bloop_sign">mu'o m=
i'e durkavore</div> <br><p class=3D"airmail_on" style=3D"color:#000;">On Ju=
ne 2, 2015 at 5:34:15 AM, Gleki Arxokuna (<a href=3D"mailto:gleki.is.my.nam=
e@gmail.com">gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com</a>) wrote:</p> <blockquote type=3D=
"cite" class=3D"clean_bq"><span><div><div></div><div>


<title></title>


<div dir=3D"ltr">Namely, that mixed lerfu/number strings should be
banned.
<div><br></div>
<div>xorxe's vision quoted at the end of this message.<br>
<div><br></div>
<div>2015-05-31 20:51 GMT+03:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas&nbsp;<span dir=3D"ltr">=
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jjllambias@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jjllambias@gm=
ail.com</a>&gt;</span>:<br></div>
<div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;p=
adding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><span class=3D"">On Sun, May 31, 2015 at
2:09 PM, Spheniscine (la zipcpi)&nbsp;<span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:spheniscine@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">spheniscine@gmail.com</a>&gt;</=
span>&nbsp;wrote:<br></span>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;p=
adding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">I've not heard of that proposal. Wouldn't that just
break all uses of {xy pa} when talking about the definitions of
words?&nbsp;</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>Those are "xy xi pa".</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>The contexts where we don't want digits and lerfu to mix (e.g.
".abu za'u re'u cusku", "by re mei", "lo re bolci zo'u pa by xunre
.i je pa by blanu", "xy xi pa dunda xy xi re xy xi ci" etc. are
much much more common than the need for mixed strings, and having
to use "boi" for those is a pain.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>So they are to be currently:</div>
<div>abu boi za'u re'u cusku&nbsp;</div>
<div>i by boi re mei&nbsp;</div>
<div>i lo re bolci zo'u pa boi by xunre&nbsp;</div>
<div>.i je pa boi by blanu&nbsp;</div>
<div>i xy xi pa dunda xy xi re boi xy xi ci&nbsp;<br>
<br></div>
<div>I can agree that it can be a pain so this proposal may sound
reasonable.</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;p=
adding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_extra">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div><span class=3D""><br></span></div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;p=
adding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div><span class=3D"">Besides, {me'o} still works, paralleling the
use of strings for entry of ISO dates in programming languages. I
just prefer {li} because</span></div>
<div>
<ul>
<li><span class=3D"">It's shorter</span></li>
<li><span class=3D"">Dates and periods technically *are* numbers in a
certain sense; arithmetic can be performed on them, despite the
fact that in some ways they don't act like real-numbers, due to the
varying length of months and years.</span></li>
</ul>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>"me'o" and "li" are in the same selma'o, so the issue is the
same for both.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>I can't agree with changing anything within {li}, however.
{li} is for mekso which is a special subset of Lojban with its own
grammar.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>{by} as a anaphorical marker and {by} within {li} are two
different entities.</div>
<div>Terminating {li} with {boi} or {lo'o} isn't that hard
IMO.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>But how would "(n+1.3)^(3.15*r^2)" be expressed under this new
xorxe's proposal then?</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</div></div></span></blockquote></body></html>

<p></p>

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