Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 00:22:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com>
To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
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 <etPan.559cc184.2308800d.64d6@Alexs-MacBook-Air-2.local>
Subject: Re: [bpfk] Re: Alternatives to {bo} in {i ... bo}?
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Le mercredi 8 juillet 2015 06:22:00 UTC, la durka a =C3=A9crit :
>
>
> iku'i e'uru'e=20
> I would rather simply add "jo'au zantufa xi pire", because this parser=20
> supports left-association of BO (though {ku} or {cu} become necessary aft=
er=20
> {la CMEVLA} because it supports also cmevla as tanru unit):
>
> http://guskant.github.io/gerna_cipra/zantufa-0.2.html
>
> ([CU {broda VAU}] [i ca bo {CU <brode VAU>}] [i {te zu'e} bo {CU <brodo=
=20
> VAU>}])
> =20
> --
>
>
> Any reason you think it should change from right- to left-grouping? I=20
> mean, we just have to pick one and stick with it. Also, in your parse it=
=20
> looks like there's no grouping at all...
>
>
> mu'o mi'e durkavore
>


First, left-grouping is the same as most of other grouping rules of Lojban.
For example, a string of tanru units is read as left-grouping:
((broda brode) brodi)
((broda ja brode) ja brodi)
I rather don't understand why only BO and CO should support right-grouping=
=20
among many other connectives.

Secondly, just the same problem as la piier raised. When I first wrote a=20
logical proof on "individuals" in Lojban, I should first mention "these=20
BO-s are regarded as left-grouping":
broda
iseni'ibo
brode
iseni'ibo
brodi
....
Right grouping of BO is very annoying for me.

We see no grouping at all on the parsing tree. It's the same thing for=20
JA-connection or simple string of tanru units:
http://mw.lojban.org/extensions/ilmentufa/camxes.html
([broda {ja brode} {ja brodi}] VAU)=20

I guess it is because of PEG's characteristic (na'e birti). I heard about=
=20
left-recursion problem of PEG. PEG first parses a string like

broda brode brodi brodo
 as=20
(broda (brode (brodi brodo))).

We should therefore modify the grouping after parsing.

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<br><br>Le mercredi 8 juillet 2015 06:22:00 UTC, la durka a =C3=A9crit&nbsp=
;:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;b=
order-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div style=3D"word-wrap:brea=
k-word"><br><div><div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0=
,0);font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-varia=
nt:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-=
align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spa=
cing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span><div><div><div dir=3D"ltr=
"><div>iku'i e'uru'e&nbsp;</div><div>I would rather simply add "jo'au zantu=
fa xi pire", because this parser supports left-association of BO (though {k=
u} or {cu} become necessary after {la CMEVLA} because it supports also cmev=
la as tanru unit):</div><div><br></div><div><a href=3D"http://guskant.githu=
b.io/gerna_cipra/zantufa-0.2.html" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" onmou=
sedown=3D"this.href=3D'http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fguskant.g=
ithub.io%2Fgerna_cipra%2Fzantufa-0.2.html\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQj=
CNHfWihHrg5Q021Vn1oJhMaU7pCxcQ';return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D'http:=
//www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fguskant.github.io%2Fgerna_cipra%2Fzan=
tufa-0.2.html\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHfWihHrg5Q021Vn1oJhMaU7pCx=
cQ';return true;">http://guskant.github.io/<wbr>gerna_cipra/zantufa-0.2.htm=
l</a></div><div><br></div><div>([CU {broda VAU}] [i ca bo {CU &lt;brode VAU=
&gt;}] [i {te zu'e} bo {CU &lt;brodo VAU&gt;}])</div><div>&nbsp;</div></div=
>--</div></div></span></blockquote></div><p><br></p></div><p>Any reason you=
 think it should change from right- to left-grouping? I mean, we just have =
to pick one and stick with it. Also, in your parse it looks like there's no=
 grouping at all...</p><p><br></p><p>mu'o mi'e durkavore</p></div></div></b=
lockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>First, left-grouping is the sa=
me as most of other grouping rules of Lojban.</div><div>For example, a stri=
ng of tanru units is read as left-grouping:</div><div>((broda brode) brodi)=
</div><div>((broda ja brode) ja brodi)</div><div>I rather don't understand =
why only BO and CO should support right-grouping among many other connectiv=
es.</div><div><br></div><div>Secondly, just the same problem as la piier ra=
ised. When I first wrote a logical proof on "individuals" in Lojban, I shou=
ld first mention "these BO-s are regarded as left-grouping":</div><div>brod=
a</div><div>iseni'ibo</div><div>brode</div><div>iseni'ibo</div><div>brodi</=
div><div>....</div><div>Right grouping of BO is very annoying for me.</div>=
<div><br></div><div>We see no grouping at all on the parsing tree. It's the=
 same thing for JA-connection or simple string of tanru units:</div><div>ht=
tp://mw.lojban.org/extensions/ilmentufa/camxes.html</div><div>([broda {ja b=
rode} {ja brodi}] VAU)&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>I guess it is because=
 of PEG's characteristic (na'e birti). I heard about left-recursion problem=
 of PEG. PEG first parses a string like</div><div><br></div><div>broda brod=
e brodi brodo</div><div>&nbsp;as&nbsp;</div><div>(broda (brode (brodi brodo=
))).</div><div><br></div><div>We should therefore modify the grouping after=
 parsing.</div><div><br></div>

<p></p>

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