Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of durka42@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22a as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22a;
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 21:38:13 -0400
From: Alex Burka <durka42@gmail.com>
To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
Message-ID: <etPan.559dd085.6c8e9f44.64d6@seas1321.wireless-pennnet.upenn.edu>
In-Reply-To: <ae123442-94b9-489a-8c6e-0e46ca5a0fc0@googlegroups.com>
References: <2619578.SDvdWZmG6y@caracal>
 <b863fb16-d327-4221-a0d3-c33a47e64f74@googlegroups.com>
 <etPan.559cc184.2308800d.64d6@Alexs-MacBook-Air-2.local>
 <ae123442-94b9-489a-8c6e-0e46ca5a0fc0@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [bpfk] Re: Alternatives to {bo} in {i ... bo}?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="559dd086_43a6cfc_64d6"
Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com
Sender: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
X-Spam_score: -1.9
X-Spam_score_int: -18
X-Spam_bar: -
Content-Length: 8702

--559dd086_43a6cfc_64d6
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline

The way I understand it, that's exactly the point. Left grouping is the def=
ault nearly everywhere, and {bo} reverses it when necessary.


On July 8, 2015 at 3:22:33 AM, guskant (gusni.kantu@gmail.com) wrote:


Le mercredi 8 juillet 2015 06:22:00 UTC, la durka a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:

iku'i e'uru'e=C2=A0
I would rather simply add "jo'au zantufa xi pire", because this parser supp=
orts left-association of BO (though {ku} or {cu} become necessary after {la=
 CMEVLA} because it supports also cmevla as tanru unit):

http://guskant.github.io/gerna_cipra/zantufa-0.2.html

([CU {broda VAU}] [i ca bo {CU <brode VAU>}] [i {te zu'e} bo {CU <brodo VAU=
>}])
=C2=A0
--


Any reason you think it should change from right- to left-grouping? I mean,=
 we just have to pick one and stick with it. Also, in your parse it looks l=
ike there's no grouping at all...


mu'o mi'e durkavore


First, left-grouping is the same as most of other grouping rules of Lojban.
For example, a string of tanru units is read as left-grouping:
((broda brode) brodi)
((broda ja brode) ja brodi)
I rather don't understand why only BO and CO should support right-grouping =
among many other connectives.

Secondly, just the same problem as la piier raised. When I first wrote a lo=
gical proof on "individuals" in Lojban, I should first mention "these BO-s =
are regarded as left-grouping":
broda
iseni'ibo
brode
iseni'ibo
brodi
....
Right grouping of BO is very annoying for me.

We see no grouping at all on the parsing tree. It's the same thing for JA-c=
onnection or simple string of tanru units:
http://mw.lojban.org/extensions/ilmentufa/camxes.html
([broda {ja brode} {ja brodi}] VAU)=C2=A0

I guess it is because of PEG's characteristic (na'e birti). I heard about l=
eft-recursion problem of PEG. PEG first parses a string like

broda brode brodi brodo
=C2=A0as=C2=A0
(broda (brode (brodi brodo))).

We should therefore modify the grouping after parsing.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
BPFK" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
BPFK" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--559dd086_43a6cfc_64d6
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline

<html><head><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style>=
</head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -web=
kit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"f=
ont-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: =
0px; line-height: auto;">The way I understand it, that's exactly the point.=
 Left grouping is the default nearly everywhere, and {bo} reverses it when =
necessary.</div> <br> <div id=3D"bloop_sign_1436405870666467072" class=3D"b=
loop_sign"></div> <br><p class=3D"airmail_on" style=3D"color:#000;">On July=
 8, 2015 at 3:22:33 AM, guskant (<a href=3D"mailto:gusni.kantu@gmail.com">g=
usni.kantu@gmail.com</a>) wrote:</p> <blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"cle=
an_bq"><span><div><div></div><div>


<title></title>


<br>
<br>
Le mercredi 8 juillet 2015 06:22:00 UTC, la durka a =C3=A9crit&nbsp;:
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;bor=
der-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><br>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica,A=
rial;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:norma=
l;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px=
;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:r=
gb(255,255,255)">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div><span>iku'i e'uru'e&nbsp;</span></div>
<div><span>I would rather simply add "jo'au zantufa xi pire",
because this parser supports left-association of BO (though {ku} or
{cu} become necessary after {la CMEVLA} because it supports also
cmevla as tanru unit):</span></div>
<div><span><br></span></div>
<div><span><a href=3D"http://guskant.github.io/gerna_cipra/zantufa-0.2.html=
" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D'http://www=
.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fguskant.github.io%2Fgerna_cipra%2Fzantufa-=
0.2.html\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHfWihHrg5Q021Vn1oJhMaU7pCxcQ';r=
eturn true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D'http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%=
2F%2Fguskant.github.io%2Fgerna_cipra%2Fzantufa-0.2.html\46sa\75D\46sntz\075=
1\46usg\75AFQjCNHfWihHrg5Q021Vn1oJhMaU7pCxcQ';return true;">
http://guskant.github.io/<wbr>gerna_cipra/zantufa-0.2.html</a></span></div>
<div><span><br></span></div>
<div><span>([CU {broda VAU}] [i ca bo {CU &lt;brode VAU&gt;}] [i
{te zu'e} bo {CU &lt;brodo VAU&gt;}])</span></div>
<div><span>&nbsp;</span></div>
</div>
<span>--</span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p><br></p>
</div>
<p>Any reason you think it should change from right- to
left-grouping? I mean, we just have to pick one and stick with it.
Also, in your parse it looks like there's no grouping at all...</p>
<p><br></p>
<p>mu'o mi'e durkavore</p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>First, left-grouping is the same as most of other grouping
rules of Lojban.</div>
<div>For example, a string of tanru units is read as
left-grouping:</div>
<div>((broda brode) brodi)</div>
<div>((broda ja brode) ja brodi)</div>
<div>I rather don't understand why only BO and CO should support
right-grouping among many other connectives.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Secondly, just the same problem as la piier raised. When I
first wrote a logical proof on "individuals" in Lojban, I should
first mention "these BO-s are regarded as left-grouping":</div>
<div>broda</div>
<div>iseni'ibo</div>
<div>brode</div>
<div>iseni'ibo</div>
<div>brodi</div>
<div>....</div>
<div>Right grouping of BO is very annoying for me.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>We see no grouping at all on the parsing tree. It's the same
thing for JA-connection or simple string of tanru units:</div>
<div>http://mw.lojban.org/extensions/ilmentufa/camxes.html</div>
<div>([broda {ja brode} {ja brodi}] VAU)&nbsp;</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>I guess it is because of PEG's characteristic (na'e birti). I
heard about left-recursion problem of PEG. PEG first parses a
string like</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>broda brode brodi brodo</div>
<div>&nbsp;as&nbsp;</div>
<div>(broda (brode (brodi brodo))).</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>We should therefore modify the grouping after parsing.</div>
<div><br></div>
--<br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "BPFK" group.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to <a href=3D"mailto:bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">=
bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>

To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:bpfk-list@googlegrou=
ps.com">bpfk-list@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>

Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list">ht=
tp://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list</a>.<br>

For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/optout">http=
s://groups.google.com/d/optout</a>.<br>


</div></div></span></blockquote></body></html>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;BPFK&quot; group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to <a href=3D"mailto:bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">bpfk-list=
+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:bpfk-list@googlegrou=
ps.com">bpfk-list@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list">ht=
tp://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list</a>.<br />
For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/optout">http=
s://groups.google.com/d/optout</a>.<br />

--559dd086_43a6cfc_64d6--