Received: from mail-lf0-f58.google.com ([209.85.215.58]:34441) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1a0O1c-0001XH-29; Sat, 21 Nov 2015 22:21:28 -0800 Received: by lfs39 with SMTP id 39sf36592765lfs.1; Sat, 21 Nov 2015 22:21:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe; bh=jRKKzddcgO2COc3k1EekZXtXtxodu7MU9IXdQFL45JU=; b=GkCR7N0Yx/Q1PPSE1yf7QajjkRuErPKpNiH3OjCx61irZYjCpiLGbJYvogeCoLxaN2 NKQioW2/1cuhp/xUUyiOxxvL9JQD8t1RBwMFHtTxB2BRKzspHjRGMHozpqKKqYeUQDs0 v8+a6qQLLgIQfEYK2gTSM0K09y2IYXDvS/f0GzGd452ps25jY6TaMnVbtAKFXLy0weAO ERcHc/OILlptJKZtMcoPJOLUTnE0Huitw/TKZJeOIzIkLoIt0y1oOAYOE1rh2JTeF6Zu jl71fNeaY64DMrxu9xSKo6oi6D8an26cXb+Bu6gh/NMry/LRVfCvc68PRCZ1eTUyFxic lQmg== X-Received: by 10.25.136.9 with SMTP id k9mr8326lfd.11.1448173277059; Sat, 21 Nov 2015 22:21:17 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.25.85.13 with SMTP id j13ls508336lfb.42.gmail; Sat, 21 Nov 2015 22:21:16 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.112.123.17 with SMTP id lw17mr4263932lbb.6.1448173276562; Sat, 21 Nov 2015 22:21:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wm0-x22e.google.com (mail-wm0-x22e.google.com. [2a00:1450:400c:c09::22e]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id g9si288939wmd.2.2015.11.21.22.21.16 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 21 Nov 2015 22:21:16 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c09::22e as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c09::22e; Received: by mail-wm0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id w144so61675868wmw.1 for ; Sat, 21 Nov 2015 22:21:16 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.194.75.202 with SMTP id e10mr26891735wjw.160.1448173276386; Sat, 21 Nov 2015 22:21:16 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.194.74.105 with HTTP; Sat, 21 Nov 2015 22:20:37 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <564CB21D.9040200@gmail.com> <22b21ea5-34d2-4081-9be6-ff6836dd8ce3@googlegroups.com> From: Gleki Arxokuna Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2015 09:20:37 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bpfk] lu .i broda li'u jo'u lo si'o .opservative To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bb049c0b65af005251b1d8e X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c09::22e as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 972099695765 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_bar: - Content-Length: 19260 --047d7bb049c0b65af005251b1d8e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2015-11-21 21:23 GMT+03:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas : > > > On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 10:38 AM, guskant wrote: > >> >> jo'au zantufa_1.1 >> ni'o lo si'o opservative cu na sai srana zo za'a >> > > ie ru'e .i lo valsi po'u zoi gy observative gy cu se cerda ma'a la loglan > .i na bauske valsi .i JCB tai di'e ciksi > > "But by 1975 it had *still* not become clear to me where the sensible > limits of *lo-*usage lay. It wasn't until a few years after the > publication of the first Loglan paperbacks in 1975--not until 1978, in > fact, when John Parks-Clifford and I were discussing the merits of Scott > Layson's proposal that we add a formal "observative" to the language > (Scott's proposal had been that we enable our observative with a regular > inflection of the predicate)--that both of us discovered, more or less > simultaneously, that we already *had* an observative! We had *lo*. It was > then that *Lo fagro!* and *Lo simba!* entered the language. To mean what? > Well, of course to mean the purest of Trobriandic ideas, namely that > *some* manifestation of Mr. Fire or Mr. Lion is prowling in the > neighborhood. Not much of these gigantic individuals need ever be observe= d > to precipitate observations of them. We shout*Fire! *or* Lions! *in > English--*Lo fagro!* or *Lo simba!* in Loglan--at the merest whiff or > cough. A big toe--or a *little* toe, for that matter--is enough to > precipitate the observation that the "giant" to whom it "belongs" is in t= he > neighborhood. This discovery--for the L observative was in truth > *discovered*, not invented (we already had it, remember; it was Scott's > invention that we *didn't* adopt)--made it very clear to me that the > limits of *lo*-usage in L ought to be as similar to those of the > Trobriand Islanders as we could make it. Accordingly I personally began t= o > use *lo*, and to urge others to use it, in observative-like ways: that > is, to celebrate *any* manifestation of these giants[...]" > > http://www.loglan.org/Articles/sets-and-masses.html > ki'anairu'e bu'o i o'urue mi ca jimpe lo krinu be lo nu la guskant cu cusku zo logji i ku'i mi ca'o na jimpe lo du'u zo frati sinxa makau vau elonu zoi .loglan.lo.loglan. noi sinxa lo gunma cu ckini fi makau i si'auru'e lo opservative pe lo loglo cu simsa lu i loi broda cu co'e li'u i ji'a mi pu djica lo nu zoi zoi.observative.zoi co'u se pilno i va'i lo nabmi be mi cu srana lo glibau i la'o zoi.github.com.zoi zo'u la guskant pu xusra lo du'u ri djica lo nu ri bregau lo cnino pagbu be cylyly. be'o poi srana lo opservative ije mi na pante i ku'i e'u pilno lo vlapoi poi la'o zoi.Quaine.zoi enai lo loglo pu pilno ni'o i ma ka'e opservative zei bridi i 1mai lu i broda li'u ji 2mai lu i zo'e broda li'u ji 3mai lu i broda fa ko'a li'u ji 4mai lu i fa zo'e broda li'u ji 5mai lu i zo'e goi ko'a broda li'u ji 6mai lu i ko'a broda li'u? i va'iru'e lo opservative cu srana lo nu lo bristedu cu kunti vau ji lo nu lo pamoi cmima be lo terbri na se cusku ? i mi birti lo nu lo 1moi cu opservative zei bridi i ju'o cu'i lo drata cu opservative > > > >> i zu'u zo za'a cu se cusku tezu'e lo nu lo cusku cu jungau lo te cusku l= o >> du'u lo cusku cu ganse da >> i zu'unai lo si'o opservative cu sidbo lo nu frati kei lo cusku >> i sa'unai la ku'ain ca lo nu pensi lo si'o opservative cu te sidbo lo nu >> fanva fo da poi na slabu >> i ce'o ky jinvi lo ji'a du'u ro da poi cmene cu ka'e se basti de poi >> selbri to mu'a zo pegasus toi kei >> e lo ji'a du'u lo ka zvati cu du lo ka se datnyvau >> i pi ro la'e di'u cu jicmu la lojban >> i lo du'u xokau va'e fa lo du'u la lojban la ku'ain cu srana cu puzu te >> tavla loi pijyske mi lo banjupunu to zoizoi >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DlzqhNYCWKLo zoi toi >> i mi pu tavla ji'a fi lo du'u lo finti be la loglan a la lojban cu na'e >> rau va'e co jimpe fi lo pijyske po la ku'ain >> i ku'i mi jinvi lo du'u ganai da'i lo ve ciksi be la lojban cu rau va'e >> co sarxe lo pijyske po la ku'ain gi frili fa lo nu lo jbotadni cu jimpe = fi >> lo logji stura ne la lojban >> > > je'e .i ku'i pe'i la ku'ain na pu pilno lo valsi po'u zoi gy observative > gy > i ie i no ba'uru'esai be lo lojbo ja loglo cu pilno tai ije la'e zoi. https://www.google.com/search?q=3Dobservative+Quine .zoi se jetnu lo du'u go'i > ni'o za'a lo so'o se jbobau cu se cinri lo po'o si'o simsa lo rarbau gi'e >> se genturfa'i lo cabra kei enai lo si'o logji vu'o po'e la lojban >> i e'a lo drata be mi cu cuxna lo nu la lojban cu tutci po'o lo nu lo >> remna joi lo minji cu tavla simxu kei gi'e cirko lo si'o logji >> i va'o lo nu go'i kei mi cliva la lojban gi'e ku'i ka'e za'o jmive ka'ai >> la zantufa noi ru'i ralte lo si'o logji >> i ku'i e'o co'u te cmene la lojban lu logji bangu li'u pe'u >> > > oi oi oi zo'o e'o ko io na cliva .i zo'o nai pe'i rau ma'a ja'a se cinri > lo logji mlana be la lojban > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "BPFK" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= BPFK" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --047d7bb049c0b65af005251b1d8e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


2015-11-21 21:23 GMT+03:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas <jjllambias@gmail.co= m>:


On Sat, Nov 21, = 2015 at 10:38 AM, guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com> wrote:=

jo'au zantufa= _1.1
ni'o lo si'o opservative cu na sai srana zo za'a=

ie ru'e .i lo valsi= po'u zoi gy observative gy cu se cerda ma'a la loglan .i na bauske= valsi .i JCB tai di'e ciksi =C2=A0=C2=A0

"But by 1975 it had=C2=A0still=C2=A0not become clear to me where the sensible limits of=C2=A0= lo-usage lay. It wasn't until a few years af= ter the publication of the first Loglan paperbacks in 1975--not until 1978,= in fact, when John Parks-Clifford and I were discussing the merits of Scot= t Layson's proposal that we add a formal "observative" to the= language (Scott's proposal had been that we enable our observative wit= h a regular inflection of the predicate)--that both of us discovered, more = or less simultaneously, that we already=C2=A0had=C2=A0an observative! We had=C2=A0lo. It was then that=C2=A0Lo fagro!=C2= =A0and=C2=A0Lo simba!=C2=A0entered the la= nguage. To mean what? Well, of course to mean the purest of Trobriandic ide= as, namely that=C2=A0some=C2=A0manifest= ation of Mr. Fire or Mr. Lion is prowling in the neighborhood. Not much of = these gigantic individuals need ever be observed to precipitate observation= s of them. We shoutFire!=C2=A0or= =C2=A0Lions!=C2=A0in English--=C2=A0or=C2=A0Lo simba!=C2=A0in Loglan--at the merest whiff or cough. A big toe--or a=C2= =A0little=C2=A0toe, for that matter--is= enough to precipitate the observation that the "giant" to whom i= t "belongs" is in the neighborhood. This discovery--for the L obs= ervative was in truth=C2=A0discovered, = not invented (we already had it, remember; it was Scott's invention tha= t we=C2=A0didn't=C2=A0adopt)--made = it very clear to me that the limits of=C2=A0lo-usage in L ought to be as similar to those of the Trobriand Islanders= as we could make it. Accordingly I personally began to use=C2=A0lo, and to urge others to use it, in observative-li= ke ways: that is, to celebrate=C2=A0anyhttp://www.loglan.org/Articles/sets-and-masses.html

ki'anairu'e b= u'o i o'urue mi ca jimpe lo krinu be lo nu la guskant cu cusku zo l= ogji
i ku'i mi ca'o na jimpe lo du'u zo frati sinxa m= akau vau=C2=A0
elonu zoi .loglan.lo.loglan. noi sinxa lo gunma cu= ckini fi makau

i si'auru'e lo opservative= pe lo loglo cu simsa lu i loi broda cu co'e li'u

i ji'a mi pu djica lo nu zoi zoi.observative.zoi co'u se pi= lno i va'i lo nabmi be mi cu srana lo glibau
i la'o zoi.g= ithub.com.zoi zo'u la guskant pu xusra lo du'u ri djica lo nu ri br= egau lo cnino pagbu be cylyly. be'o poi srana lo opservative ije mi na = pante i ku'i e'u pilno lo vlapoi poi la'o zoi.Quaine.zoi enai l= o loglo pu pilno

ni'o
i ma ka'e = opservative zei bridi
i 1mai lu i broda li'u
ji 2ma= i lu i zo'e broda li'u
ji 3mai lu i broda fa ko'= a li'u
ji 4mai lu i fa zo'e broda li'u
ji 5mai lu i zo'e goi ko'a broda li'u
ji 6mai lu i ko'a broda li'u?

i va'iru'e lo opservative cu srana lo nu lo bristedu cu kun= ti vau ji lo nu lo pamoi cmima be lo terbri na se cusku ?

i mi birti lo nu lo 1moi cu opservative zei bridi i ju'o cu'= ;i lo drata cu opservative


=

=C2=A0
i zu'u zo za'a cu se cusku tezu'e lo nu lo cus= ku cu jungau lo te cusku lo du'u lo cusku cu ganse da
i zu= 9;unai lo si'o opservative cu sidbo lo nu frati kei lo cusku
= i sa'unai la ku'ain ca lo nu pensi lo si'o opservative cu te si= dbo lo nu fanva fo da poi na slabu
i ce'o ky jinvi lo ji'= a du'u ro da poi cmene cu ka'e se basti de poi selbri to mu'a z= o pegasus toi kei
e lo ji'a du'u lo ka zvati cu du lo ka = se datnyvau
i pi ro la'e di'u cu jicmu la lojban
i lo du'u xokau va'e fa lo du'u la lojban la ku'ain cu sr= ana cu puzu te tavla loi pijyske mi lo banjupunu to zoizoi https://www.you= tube.com/watch?v=3DlzqhNYCWKLo zoi toi
i mi pu tavla ji'a= fi lo du'u lo finti be la loglan a la lojban cu na'e rau va'e = co jimpe fi lo pijyske po la ku'ain
i ku'i mi jinvi lo du= 'u ganai da'i lo ve ciksi be la lojban cu rau va'e co sarxe lo = pijyske po la ku'ain gi frili fa lo nu lo jbotadni cu jimpe fi lo logji= stura ne la lojban

je&#= 39;e .i ku'i pe'i la ku'ain na pu pilno lo valsi po'u zoi g= y observative gy=C2=A0

<= div>i ie i no ba'uru'esai be lo lojbo ja loglo cu pilno tai=C2=A0
ije la'e zoi. https://www.google.com/search?q=3Dobservative+Quine .zo= i se jetnu lo du'u go'i


ni'o za= 9;a lo so'o se jbobau cu se cinri lo po'o si'o simsa lo rarbau = gi'e se genturfa'i lo cabra kei enai lo si'o logji vu'o po&= #39;e la lojban=C2=A0
i e'a lo drata be mi cu cuxna lo nu la = lojban cu tutci po'o lo nu lo remna joi lo minji cu tavla simxu kei gi&= #39;e cirko lo si'o logji
i va'o lo nu go'i kei mi cl= iva la lojban gi'e ku'i ka'e za'o jmive ka'ai la zantuf= a noi ru'i ralte lo si'o logji
i ku'i e'o co'= u te cmene la lojban lu logji bangu li'u pe'u

=C2=A0oi oi oi zo'o e'o ko io na cliv= a .i zo'o nai pe'i rau ma'a ja'a se cinri lo logji mlana be= la lojban

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;BPFK" group.
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