Sender: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2019 04:48:00 -0800 (PST)
From: guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com>
To: BPFK <bpfk-list@googlegroups.com>
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Subject: [bpfk] Re: Salutations!
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coi la eris

I once insisted that any non-fluent lojban speakers may join BPFK:=20
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/bpfk-list/SXxIpMLgL5s/6aS8ec5oCgAJ

I wrote:=20
i pe'i lo tcini no'u lo nu kakne lo nu pilno la lojban cu na'e sarcu lo nu=
=20
me byfy kei sei ku'i ka'e banzu tcini
i lo canaiba pilno be la lojban cu .e'a kansa mi'o lo nu jdice fi lo ka=20
bangu=20
i la'a lo ji'a no'e tavla fo la lojban cu kakne lo nu jimpe lo lojbo jufra=
=20
kei sepi'o lo fanva tutci a lo vlaste

Translation:
I think that the condition of ability of speaking lojban is not necessary=
=20
for being a member of bpfk, though it can be a sufficient condition.
I allow that our activity of defining the language property is accompanied=
=20
by people who don't but will do use lojban.
Perhaps people who don't speak lojban much have also the ability of=20
understanding lojban statements using translation tools or dictionaries.

To say more precisely, I don't oppose myelf to using English for discussing=
=20
the structure of lojban, both about syntax or semantics.=20
I am not very fluent in English, but I can use dictionaries for=20
participating the discussion.
The difference is only that who has difficulties in participating the=20
discussion: ones who are not fluent in lojban, or ones who are not fluent=
=20
in English. I belong not to the former but to the latter, but I will allow=
=20
to discuss in English, because fluent English speakers are majority among=
=20
lojban users, while fluent lojban speakers are minority among lojban users.

However, please be noted that I oppose myself to using English for defining=
=20
lojban words. I once wrote the reason why the lojban words must be defined=
=20
by lojban:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/hAfNwSdXl4A/iiIA8XV9C9gJ

As for using Github, I suggested it in an LLG meeting when I was a member=
=20
of it. It is a good method, but you need to define clearly who are=20
responsible for pulling requests, adding a member, defining the power of=20
each member. Otherwise the result will be similar to the unsystematic group=
=20
organized by some unknown volunteers: https://github.com/lojban . They once=
=20
published a feature under discussion as if it were an official feature.

mi'e la guskant


Le mercredi 6 mars 2019 04:41:03 UTC, la .eris. a =C3=A9crit :
>
> Coi rodo,
>
> I just spent half an hour writing out a long post with lots attitudinals=
=20
> and humor and the like, but it appears to have disappeared into the ether=
,=20
> so this will be rather brief. There is currently discussion at the LLG=20
> Members Meeting about what to do with the BPFK. Instructions for how to g=
et=20
> to that meeting are posted in many places. A summary of my proposal follo=
ws.
>
> I want to create an RFC process, whereby anyone could make proposals (in=
=20
> English) for changes to Lojban. There would then be public discussion and=
 a=20
> decision by some body, possibly the BPFK and possibly someone else. I'm n=
ot=20
> some radical who wants to change everything. Almost all of the language=
=20
> change proposals that I particularly want done aren't of my creation. For=
=20
> instance, I'd like to merge CAI into UI. I also kind of like the NOIhA=20
> proposal and the indicator ko'oi, among other such changes. I don't want =
to=20
> add malglico or ruin everything; I just want somewhere that language chan=
ge=20
> could happen (with peer review and at least semi-official adoption, not=
=20
> just by adding an experimental cmavo and waiting to see if they catch on=
=20
> without any hope of them ever entering the official language). The detail=
s=20
> of the RFC process haven't been determined yet, although I have some stro=
ng=20
> opinions (to use GitHub, for one).
>
> I would also like to open up membership in the BPFK to people who aren't=
=20
> fluent. There are some people, like me, who haven't become fluent in Lojb=
an=20
> yet, but would still like to have a voice in language discussions and can=
=20
> still be trusted to participate productively without breaking everything.=
=20
> This would mean that discussions would be in English, which is really a=
=20
> necessity anyway, since the RFCs would be in English and not everyone=20
> submitting ideas would be able to speak English.
>
> I'd also like to get documentation, including the CLL, up to date. I=20
> propose that the BPFK (or its successor) assume responsibility for=20
> maintaining documentation. There are several people who have expressed=20
> interest in participating under something like my suggestion, and I expec=
t=20
> that some of them will also help update documentation if that is part of=
=20
> the job.=20
>
> This is not the original posting of my proposal, and many arguments and=
=20
> counterarguments have already been raised. I hope you will join the meeti=
ng=20
> and comment, or become active there if you are currently present but=20
> inactive.
>
> mi'e .eris.
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>coi la eris</div><div><br></div><div>I once insisted =
that any non-fluent lojban speakers may join BPFK: <br></div><div>https://g=
roups.google.com/d/msg/bpfk-list/SXxIpMLgL5s/6aS8ec5oCgAJ</div><div><br></d=
iv><div>I wrote: <br></div><div><div>i pe&#39;i lo tcini no&#39;u lo nu kak=
ne lo nu pilno la lojban cu na&#39;e sarcu lo nu me byfy kei sei ku&#39;i k=
a&#39;e banzu tcini</div><div>i lo canaiba pilno be la lojban cu .e&#39;a k=
ansa mi&#39;o lo nu jdice fi lo ka bangu=C2=A0</div>i la&#39;a lo ji&#39;a =
no&#39;e tavla fo la lojban cu kakne lo nu jimpe lo lojbo jufra kei sepi=
9;o lo fanva tutci a lo vlaste</div><div><br></div><div>Translation:</div><=
div>I
 think that the condition of ability of speaking lojban is not necessary
 for being a member of bpfk, though it can be a sufficient condition.</div>=
<div>I allow that our activity of defining the language property is accompa=
nied by people who don&#39;t but will do use lojban.</div><div>Perhaps
 people who don&#39;t speak lojban much have also the ability of understand=
ing=20
lojban statements using translation tools or dictionaries.</div><div><br></=
div><div>To
 say more precisely, I don&#39;t oppose myelf to using English for=20
discussing the structure of lojban, both about syntax or semantics. <br></d=
iv><div>I am not very fluent in English, but I can use dictionaries for par=
ticipating the discussion.</div><div>The
 difference is only that who has difficulties in participating the=20
discussion: ones who are not fluent in lojban, or ones who are not=20
fluent in English. I belong not to the former but to the latter, but I=20
will allow to discuss in English, because fluent English speakers are=20
majority among lojban users, while fluent lojban speakers are minority=20
among lojban users.<br></div><div><br></div><div>However, please be=20
noted that I oppose myself to using English for defining lojban words. I
 once wrote the reason why the lojban words must be defined by lojban:</div=
><div>https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/hAfNwSdXl4A/iiIA8XV9C9gJ<br></=
div><div><br></div><div>As
 for using Github, I suggested it in an LLG meeting when I was a member=20
of it. It is a good method, but you need to define clearly who are=20
responsible for pulling requests, adding a member, defining the power of
 each member. Otherwise the result will be similar to the unsystematic=20
group organized by some unknown volunteers: https://github.com/lojban .=20
They once published a feature under discussion as if it were an official
 feature.</div><div><br></div><div>mi&#39;e la guskant</div><div><br></div>=
<br>Le mercredi 6 mars 2019 04:41:03 UTC, la .eris. a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:<blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-=
left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr">Coi rodo,<div><br=
></div><div>I just spent half an hour writing out a long post with lots att=
itudinals and humor and the like, but it appears to have disappeared into t=
he ether, so this will be rather brief. There is currently discussion at th=
e LLG Members Meeting about what to do with the BPFK. Instructions for how =
to get to that meeting are posted in many places. A summary of my proposal =
follows.</div><div><br></div><div>I want to create an RFC process, whereby =
anyone could make proposals (in English) for changes to Lojban. There would=
 then be public discussion and a decision by some body, possibly the BPFK a=
nd possibly someone else. I&#39;m not some radical who wants to change ever=
ything. Almost all of the language change proposals that I particularly wan=
t done aren&#39;t of my creation. For instance, I&#39;d like to merge CAI i=
nto UI. I also kind of like the NOIhA proposal and the indicator ko&#39;oi,=
 among other such changes. I don&#39;t want to add malglico or ruin everyth=
ing; I just want somewhere that language change could happen (with peer rev=
iew and at least semi-official adoption, not just by adding an experimental=
 cmavo and waiting to see if they catch on without any hope of them ever en=
tering the official language). The details of the RFC process haven&#39;t b=
een determined yet, although I have some strong opinions (to use GitHub, fo=
r one).</div><div><br></div><div>I would also like to open up membership in=
 the BPFK to people who aren&#39;t fluent. There are some people, like me, =
who haven&#39;t become fluent in Lojban yet, but would still like to have a=
 voice in language discussions and can still be trusted to participate prod=
uctively without breaking everything. This would mean that discussions woul=
d be in English, which is really a necessity anyway, since the RFCs would b=
e in English and not everyone submitting ideas would be able to speak Engli=
sh.</div><div><br></div><div>I&#39;d also like to get documentation, includ=
ing the CLL, up to date. I propose that the BPFK (or its successor) assume =
responsibility for maintaining documentation. There are several people who =
have expressed interest in participating under something like my suggestion=
, and I expect that some of them will also help update documentation if tha=
t is part of the job.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>This is not the origin=
al posting of my proposal, and many arguments and counterarguments have alr=
eady been raised. I hope you will join the meeting and comment, or become a=
ctive there if you are currently present but inactive.</div><div><br></div>=
<div>mi&#39;e .eris.</div></div></blockquote></div>

<p></p>

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