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Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 22:24:31 -0500
Message-ID: <5715b9301002271924s287eaaa1xa42d34d3997bd82e@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Tenses in abstractions
From: Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>
To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org
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Ok, so, what you're describing, xorxes, is something different from the CLL
I think.  I thought I always understood VA/ZI as sumtcita but I guess not.
 The CLL version I understand to mean that {mi citka lo plise za lo nu mi
sipna} means "I eat the apple a medium time distance from the event of me
sleeping".  Could you explain what {mi citka lo plise za lo nu mi sipna}
means under your understanding of VA/ZI sumtcita, xorxes?

Thanks.

P.S.  It's a little disconcerting that I've been learning lojban for over a
year now and have been using VA/ZI sumtcita like the CLL describes them
without ever hearing of another way to use them.  When are we going to get
an updated version of the CLL with all the errata/xorlo/dotside/anything
else that's come out of BPFK?  Or at the very least an "official" page of
some sort with all of the official changes that have been made from the CLL=
?
 Or even less, can we get a page with all the changes that "usage has
decided" are part of lojban?

2010/2/25 Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>

> On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 11:30 PM, Sam Chapin <not.here.now@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Ah, I see. Under your scheme {va co'e} conveys the same meaning by a
> > different mechanism - "something happens a moderate (but otherwise
> > unspecified) distance from the speaker", rather than "something
> > happens a moderate distance away from (unspecified, but by default)
> > the speaker".
>
> Yes, "va co'e" in both cases says that something happens a moderate
> (but otherwise unspecified) distance away from the origin (probably
> the speaker).
>
> The difference is in which part of the unspecification would be
> provided by the tagged sumti. The other part, if needed, has to be
> provided by other means.
>
> mu'o mi'e xorxes
>
>
>
>

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Ok, so, what you&#39;re describing, xorxes, is something different from the=
 CLL I think. =A0I thought I always understood VA/ZI as sumtcita but I gues=
s not. =A0The CLL version I understand to mean that {mi citka lo plise za l=
o nu mi sipna} means &quot;I eat the apple a medium time distance from the =
event of me sleeping&quot;. =A0Could you explain what {mi citka lo plise za=
 lo nu mi sipna} means under your understanding of VA/ZI sumtcita, xorxes?<=
div>
<br></div><div>Thanks.</div><div><br></div><div>P.S. =A0It&#39;s a little d=
isconcerting that I&#39;ve been learning lojban for over a year now and hav=
e been using VA/ZI sumtcita like the CLL describes them without ever hearin=
g of another way to use them. =A0When are we going to get an updated versio=
n of the CLL with all the=A0errata/xorlo/dotside/anything else that&#39;s c=
ome out of BPFK? =A0Or at the very least an &quot;official&quot; page of so=
me sort with all of the official changes that have been made from the CLL? =
=A0Or even less, can we get a page with all the changes that &quot;usage ha=
s decided&quot; are part of lojban?<br>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2010/2/25 Jorge Llamb=EDas <span dir=3D"ltr"=
>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jjllambias@gmail.com">jjllambias@gmail.com</a>&gt;</=
span><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;borde=
r-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div class=3D"im">On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 11:30 PM, Sam Chapin &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:not.here.now@gmail.com">not.here.now@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br=
>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Ah, I see. Under your scheme {va co&#39;e} conveys the same meaning by=
 a<br>
&gt; different mechanism - &quot;something happens a moderate (but otherwis=
e<br>
&gt; unspecified) distance from the speaker&quot;, rather than &quot;someth=
ing<br>
&gt; happens a moderate distance away from (unspecified, but by default)<br=
>
&gt; the speaker&quot;.<br>
<br>
</div>Yes, &quot;va co&#39;e&quot; in both cases says that something happen=
s a moderate<br>
(but otherwise unspecified) distance away from the origin (probably<br>
the speaker).<br>
<br>
The difference is in which part of the unspecification would be<br>
provided by the tagged sumti. The other part, if needed, has to be<br>
provided by other means.<br>
<div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
mu&#39;o mi&#39;e xorxes<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

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