Message-ID: <40FC80B4.3050503@yahoo.com.au>
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:17:24 +1000
From: Tristan Mc Leay <kesuari@yahoo.com.au>
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Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: New beginner
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Robin Lee Powell wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 20, 2004 at 12:21:04AM +1000, Tristan Mc Leay wrote:
> 
>>mi'e tcristyn. 
> 
> 
> I doubt you wanted the 'c' there.

I pronounce it with a noticeable affricative in the first position, 
[tSrist@n] sound more like [tSr\Ist@n] than [trist@n], regardless of 
what value the [r] has (noticeable enough that I realised I (and people 
around me) was (were) using 'ch' rather than 't' in 'Tristan' and 
'train' when I was in primary school). If doing that is evil of me, I 
can settle for tristyn, though.

>>(Though I note in the archives that Nora says "mi'e noras" with no
>>fullstop at the end---perhaps I haven't learnt enough.)
> 
> 
> If you have spaces between words, the places to put the stops are easy
> to determine, so people sometimes leave them out.

Ahkay.

>>This time I did pay it some attention and found it more interesting
>>than I thought.
> 
> 
> Yay1

In some ways I can't believe I didn't find it more interesting before, 
it was shouting at me 'WHY HAVEN'T YOU PAID MORE ATTENTION TO ME??' this 
time :)

>>So I've kinda read a bit about Lojban now, and decided that it sounds
>>interesting and worth learning. So far, I have read various webpages,
>>the first part of the level 0 booklet, and I'm working through Chapter
>>6 (Time and Space) of Robin Turner and Nick Nicholas's Lojban For
>>Beginners lessons. 
> 
> 
> Make sure it's this version:
> 
> http://www.tlg.uci.edu/~opoudjis/lojbanbrochure/

I had actually downloaded the PDF from ptolemy.tlg.uci.edu, linked to 
from the Lojban website. It has the same date though (and the same md5 
checksum), so unless the PDF is out of line with the HTML I suppose I'm 
okay.

>>At this stage, the most annoying thing to me was that everything I'd
>>read started using words (_cmene_ etc.) repeatedly before introducing
>>the pronunciation, so I had to take a stab at the pronunciation of <c>
>>and I was wrong, but it stuck .ue.i'enai. I've just about got over
>>that. 
> 
> 
> Ouch.  Most of our introductory stuff should have pronounciation guides
> early on; can you point to something in particular?

Well, I think the 'What is Lojban?'/the level 0 booklet is the worst 
offender, it takes until chapter 2 in part 2 (pg 35 in the booklet pdf) 
to get around (and actually, I've read ch. 2 of that, too, in spite of 
what I said before). It probably didn't help that I started by reading 
the Wikipedia entry on the topic, which has words but no pronunciation 
anywhere. I suppose I might've been exaggerating, but it seems like 
you're reading more than you are, there's so much of it :)

The lessons were an exception, but I'd already read stuff before them.

-- 
| Tristan.               |       To be nobody-but-yourself in a world
| kesuari@yahoo!.com.au  |  which is doing its best to, night and day,
|                        |                 to make you everybody else---
|                        |          means to fight the hardest battle
|                        |            which any human being can fight;
|                        |                    and never stop fighting.
|                        |      --- E. E. Cummings, "A Miscellany"
|                        |
|                        |     In the fight between you and the world,
|                        |                             back the world.
|                        |      --- Franz Kafka,
|                        |         "RS's 1974 Expectation of Days"