Message-ID: <20050316182004.85344.qmail@web41906.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:20:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Jorge "Llambías" <jjllambias2000@yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: nu fanva zoi gy. I pledge allegiance... .gy
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--- Adam COOPER wrote:
> Hmmmmm... I'm not so sure. A promise of allegiance does not constitute
> actual allegiance. A set of actions constitutes allegiance.

Right, a promise just constitutes a promise. You pledge allegiance
by saying "I pledge allegiance". That's different from 
non-performative sentences. You don't go to the market by
saying "I go to the market" for example.
 
> I think
> that's built into the notion of promise/nupre; the promise defines a
> series of actions or a pattern of behavior to be performed in the
> future. 

Yes. Saying "I promise" is one way of making a promise.
{ca'e} indicates that you are actually making a promise, not 
just describing a state of affairs but creating one.

> As for forfeit, I don't forfeit by saying "I forfeit", I
> forfeit by removing my staff from the lands in question, informing the
> tenants that I can & will no longer collect their rents, stuff like
> that.

Then you would say "I pledge ... and I have forfeited my lands", 
if the forfeiting is not "and I hearby forfeit".

> What actually happens is that I pledge allegiance, I actually forfeit
> lands, & then later I break my pledge.

Do you then get your lands back?

mu'o mi'e xorxes


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