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Message-ID: <12d58c160503230842c095b81@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 11:42:09 -0500
From: Adam COOPER <adamgarrigus@gmail.com>
To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org
Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: z and s? Re: Re: first question - Lojban c and j - what's the difference?
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coi .adam. .e cindras

Rather than wait for Lojban sound files, it might be faster to look on
the web for pages on How to Pronounce English (or French, or Russian).
The Lojban {c} and {j} are found in all those languages as well as
others. There are probably sound files for those already on the web.

The IPA symbols are (& I hope these encode):
Lojban {c} IPA / ʃ /
Lojban {j} IPA / ʒ /

Good luck!


On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:50:16 +0100, Adam Ehlers Nyholm Thomsen
<adament@gmail.com> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> I don't know much about this either and can have quite a hard time too
> grasping the sounds when reading, so to direct to my earlier question
> wouldn't it be easier, if possible to release a kind of sound addendum
> to "Lojban for Beginners", like a big zip with ogg or spx files of
> each Lojban word mentioned in the book. I know this is a big work but
> if it could be done, I believe it would be much more easy for
> beginners like me to learn the sounds of Lojban.
> Cheers,
> Adam
> 
> lojban@shindra.com wrote:
> 
> > Thank you, that was a very good answer. Now the problem turns into
> > the fact that I could never tell the difference between z and s :(
> > this is where the vocal cords vs. friction should help me, but I
> > guess I'm just not good at this :( does anyone have an idea of how
> > I might be able to understand this? thanks - Shindra
> >
> > = = = Original message = = =
> >
> > The "j" sound, ZH, is voiced and the "c" sound, SH, is not. The
> > difference is the same as the difference between S and Z. Or
> > between F and V. Your vocal cords move with ZH, Z or V but with SH,
> > S or F the sound is just the friction of blown air. - epkat
> >
> >
> > lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org wrote:
> >
> >> In the "Lojban For Beginners" lessons, about consonants, it says
> >> that " c: sh, as in SHip j: as in meaSure or French bonJour " but
> >> I can't hear/see/think/percieve the difference help, please?
> >>
> >> - Shindra