Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sat, 26 Mar 2005 00:25:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.44) id 1DF5AK-0001IS-N6 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Fri, 25 Mar 2005 22:53:00 -0800 Received: from ms-smtp-02-qfe0.socal.rr.com ([66.75.162.134] helo=ms-smtp-02-eri0.socal.rr.com) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.44) id 1DF5AI-0001IK-PT for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Fri, 25 Mar 2005 22:53:00 -0800 Received: from [192.168.1.100] (cpe-66-74-158-226.socal.res.rr.com [66.74.158.226]) by ms-smtp-02-eri0.socal.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id j2Q6quX7025493 for ; Fri, 25 Mar 2005 22:52:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <424506C8.3070305@calpoly.edu> Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 22:52:56 -0800 From: Brandon Wirick User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Macintosh/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] z and s Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 1328 X-Approved-By: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: bwirick@calpoly.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners Content-Length: 403 It seems like people are getting hung up on the concepts of voiced and unvoiced consonants. It's a pretty simple concept: with voiced consonants, your vocal chords move and make noise; with unvoiced consonants, they don't. In English, voice accounts for all the significant difference between 's' and 'z', 'p' and 'b', 't' and 'd', 'k' and hard 'g', 'ch' and 'j', etc. Hope that helps. .uairyk.