Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 10 May 2005 05:51:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DVUCa-0006LM-FD for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 10 May 2005 05:51:08 -0700 Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.196]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DVUCJ-0006JC-L9 for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Tue, 10 May 2005 05:51:08 -0700 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 69so1507664wra for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 05:50:20 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=lS9Lxc4p9OCS8N/4tVPoqdRNseClNSGmbkIgBWKPQ56NteRWM+eeg0zyEJ5Wew1ytOwGdmGEQzcZ0yAk6aTszbQ3S/yhZH5J5Bd3JN3vpQmaMWzgR1VLU6zV/raFqbYiG/hQkZO5bWFXXKD4iz4XRlckKADONq6OxFSlvKJ9AhQ= Received: by 10.54.33.37 with SMTP id g37mr491850wrg; Tue, 10 May 2005 05:50:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.67.20 with HTTP; Tue, 10 May 2005 05:50:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d175605051005502a629f3e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 09:50:19 -0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: I'm a Believer In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <925d175605050611562e77935d@mail.gmail.com> <001301c55287$b7534f00$0200a8c0@crh37> <925d1756050507071558a93753@mail.gmail.com> <925d175605050907254976fd63@mail.gmail.com> <925d175605050910474cfaa3af@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-archive-position: 1434 X-Approved-By: jjllambias@gmail.com X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners Content-Length: 612 On 5/10/05, Betsemes wrote: > I knew about the abstractors. What confuses me is that /mi pu steba ro se > senva be mi/ has no such abstractor and yet steba requires an abstraction: > steba: x1 feels frustration about x2 (abstraction) x2 of senva takes an abstraction, therefore {lo se senva} refers to an abstraction. mi senva lo nu mi vofli lo nu mi vofli = lo se senva be mi > That leads me to conclude that abstractions do not necessarily requires an > abstractor and thus it leaves me with a vague idea of what an abstraction > is. xu le mupli pu sidju mu'o mi'e xorxes