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Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 18:08:39 -0300
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= <jjllambias@gmail.com>
To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org
Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: zvati
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On 6/9/05, Betsemes <betsemes@hotmail.com> wrote:
> After reading the whole exchange that you and Robin had, I'm under the
> impression that neither ca nor bu'u would embrace the whole meaning that
> {fi'o se zvati} would bring. 

I still think bu'u = fi'o se zvati.

>The way I see these sentences translated are:
> I drink only water at the time of the party.
> I drink only water at the location of the party.
> The first one refers to the time of the party, but it could mean that I'm
> located some place else. The second one refers to the place where the party
> was, but it could even refer to a party celebrated a year before the moment
> I'm standing at that place. 

Yes, but {mi nau zvati lo nu pu salci ca le prulamna'a} can also
mean that I'm now at the place where a party was celebrated
last year. {bu'u ko'a} indicates the location of ko'a, but ko'a has
to be there at the time in question. It's not any location where
ko'a was at any time.  

So while I understand a sentence such as "I
> drink only water at the party" as referring to the same moment and time of
> the party, I cannot connect a location tense word (like bu'u) with the
> concept of an event which is located both in space and time.

Every physical object is located both in space and time, not just 
events. The peculiarity of events is that they tend to have a single
space-time location and then disappear, whereas other
objects tend to have extended trajectories in space-time,
but there are exceptions in both camps.

> I'd understand something like this (if the grammar is right):
> mi pinxe lo po'o djacu ca je bu'u lenu salci
> or like this:
> mi pinxe lo po'o djacu fi'o se zvati lenu salci
> as conveying the whole meaning I'd like to bring.
> ????

The grammar is correct. You can also use {di'o} for the
purely spatial sense.

mu'o mi'e xorxes