Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 23 Nov 2005 08:33:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.54) id 1EexYm-0006CL-3d for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 08:33:28 -0800 Received: from xproxy.gmail.com ([66.249.82.196]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.54) id 1EexYj-0006CD-O8 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 08:33:27 -0800 Received: by xproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id r21so2540265wxc for ; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 08:33:24 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=RTqri9K5mtM+cIjL/1Mo+6pujaalWBq8d/cqHa8pD/w+sM/fviCqEJEKbaSP8dswduFy/q8uBNzYfMjj5fXflLgCu5H5qwK2wIBVAttZAGtg034uMchPdE/FXdmea4GWq9CWK3sLsBCkesenp8wHbVT3fogtbkbJzS4GsPECiec= Received: by 10.64.27.6 with SMTP id a6mr6242770qba; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 08:33:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.110.8 with HTTP; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 08:33:22 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:33:22 -0500 From: Matt Arnold To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: The lyre In-Reply-To: <925d17560511230813m4ccfd0fwc17f53e63b9b6fb9@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <2d3df92a0511230741t19c76b03k2fe7423abc0af7a0@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560511230813m4ccfd0fwc17f53e63b9b6fb9@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-archive-position: 2666 X-Approved-By: matt.mattarn@gmail.com X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: matt.mattarn@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Content-Length: 1092 On 11/23/05, Jorge Llambías wrote: > On 11/23/05, HeliodoR wrote: > > A poem I've read - in rather free translation - starts like this: > > > > "The lyre, the lyre do strain when death is coming." > > > > where "lyre" is the subject, obviously. How can the repeated > > words be translated to Lojban without using {si}, because the > > person isn't reconsidering, and without losing its emotional > > effect. > > I think technically you mean "topic" rather than "subject". The topic > is what the sentence is about, the subject is the doer of the action, > (or what is described by the predicate). In this case the subject is > "you" and "the lyre" is the object. > > In Lojban, any argument can be topicalized by placing it in the > prenex. For example: > > lo jgita zo'u lo jgita gau ko trati ca lo nu lo nunmro cu jbibi'o > > (Maybe {jgita} is too general for "lyre". Other suggestions?) > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > I didn't read it as "You! Strain the lyre when death is coming." I read it as "When death is coming, the lyre strains." -epkat