Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 26 Feb 2007 09:06:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HLjJB-00043h-Un for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2007 09:06:42 -0800 Received: from mclmx.mail.saic.com ([149.8.64.10]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HLjJ3-00043X-JY for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2007 09:06:41 -0800 Received: from 0015-its-ieg01.mail.saic.com ([149.8.64.21] [149.8.64.21]) by mclmx.mail.saic.com for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2007 12:06:14 -0500 Received: from 0015-ITS-EXBH01.us.saic.com ([10.43.229.18]) by 0015-its-ieg01.mail.saic.com (SMSSMTP 4.0.5.66) with SMTP id M2007022612061303324 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2007 12:06:13 -0500 Received: from 0456-its-exmp01.us.saic.com ([10.75.0.188]) by 0015-ITS-EXBH01.us.saic.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 26 Feb 2007 12:06:13 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C759C8.6B9B871B" Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Forbidden triples and doubled FAs (two topics) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 12:06:13 -0500 Message-Id: <1189A858F8918F43BE3F9C7603C73FB4031E7BD8@0456-its-exmp01.us.saic.com> In-Reply-To: <12d58c160702260858i4b435593kd13d6c76e944563c@mail.gmail.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [lojban-beginners] Re: Forbidden triples and doubled FAs (two topics) Thread-Index: AcdZx7pLIeiLxxWPTcSmoR9hoMz2EgAAHSbQ From: "Turniansky, Michael" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Feb 2007 17:06:13.0910 (UTC) FILETIME=[6BBB0B60:01C759C8] X-Spam-Score: -2.5 X-Spam-Score-Int: -24 X-Spam-Bar: -- X-archive-position: 4052 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: MICHAEL.A.TURNIANSKY@saic.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Content-Length: 11600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C759C8.6B9B871B Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, I sorry. I did in fact mean le broda cu brodi le brodi fe le brodo... all those brod* got me confused and I lost track of what I was doing ;-) =20 --gejyspa ________________________________ From: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org [mailto:lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org] On Behalf Of komfo,amonan Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 11:59 AM To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Forbidden triples and doubled FAs (two topics) =20 From: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org [mailto: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org ] On Behalf Of Turniansky, Michael=20 Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 9:46 AM To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org=20 Subject: [lojban-beginners] Forbidden triples and doubled FAs (two topics) 1) I note that just as lojban disallows certain CC combinations (such as "mz") for fear they will be misheard, TLI Loglan disallows certain triples (like "ndj" which might be confused as "nj") Does lojban have any such forbidden triples? I see none such in the CRG, but don't know if the BPFK has done anything on this.=20 2) An utterance of the form "le broda cu le brode fe le brodi" or even "le broda cu fe le brode fe le brodi" is grammatically acceptable, but does it have any meaning? As I see it, there are three possibilities: One) it is non-meaningful, and clearly and error; two) It implies some type of logical or non-logical connection between the argument, equivalent to "le broda cu fe brode JE/JOI brodi" (and probably specifically je or joi); or three) brodi replaces brode entirely. Has this been discussed/resolved? Thanks in advance, --gejsypa =20 On 2/26/07, Turniansky, Michael wrote:=20 1) there are four explicitly disallowed triples -- ndj'', ``ndz'', ``ntc'', and ``nts" (CLL, chapter 3, just above last paragraph of section 7) 2) It is my second guess. It operates like ".e" , simultaneously making the claim about both items in that slot (CLL chapter 9, example 3.9) --gejyspa, sevzi tavla It should be pointed out that the examples in your second question are ungrammatical for reasons unrelated to the substance of your question. I think what you mean are=20 {broda [fe] le brode fe le brodi} and {broda [fe] le brode je/joi brodi}. mu'o mi'e komfo,amonan =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C759C8.6B9B871B Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

  Yes, I sorry.  I did in = fact mean le broda cu brodi le brodi fe le brodo… all those brod* got me = confused and I lost track of what I was doing ;-)

 

      =             &= nbsp;     --gejyspa

From: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org = [mailto:lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org] On Behalf Of komfo,amonan
Sent: Monday, February = 26, 2007 11:59 AM
To: = lojban-beginners@lojban.org
Subject: = [lojban-beginners] Re: Forbidden triples and doubled FAs (two = topics)

 

From: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org [mailto: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org] On Behalf Of Turniansky, Michael
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 9:46 AM
To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org
Subject: [lojban-beginners] Forbidden triples and doubled = FAs (two topics)

1) I note that just as lojban disallows certain CC combinations (such as "mz") for fear they will be misheard, TLI Loglan disallows = certain triples (like "ndj" which might be confused as = "nj")  Does lojban have any such forbidden triples?  I see none such in = the CRG, but don't know if the BPFK has done anything on this. =

 2) An utterance of the form "le broda cu le brode fe le brodi" or = even "le broda cu fe le brode fe le brodi" is grammatically = acceptable, but does it have any meaning?  As I see it, there are three possibilities:  One) it is non-meaningful, and clearly and error; = two) It implies some type of logical or non-logical connection  between the argument, equivalent to  "le broda cu fe brode JE/JOI = brodi" (and probably specifically je or joi);  or three) brodi replaces = brode entirely.  Has this been = discussed/resolved?

    &nbs= p;            = ;   Thanks in advance,

    &nbs= p;            = ;         --gejsypa

 

On 2/26/07, Turniansky, Michael <MICHAEL.A.TURNIANSKY@saic.c= om> wrote:

1)<= font size=3D1 color=3Dnavy>      = there are four explicitly disallowed = triples -- ndj'', ``ndz'', ``ntc'', and ``nts" (CLL, chapter 3, just above = last paragraph of section 7)

2)<= font size=3D1 color=3Dnavy>      = It is my second guess.  It operates = like ".e" , simultaneously making the claim about both items in = that slot (CLL chapter 9, example 3.9)

         &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;  --gejyspa, sevzi tavla


It should be pointed out that the examples in your second question are ungrammatical for reasons unrelated to the substance of your question. I = think what you mean are
{broda [fe] le brode fe le brodi}
and
{broda [fe] le brode je/joi brodi}.
mu'o mi'e komfo,amonan

 

 

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