Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 01 May 2007 04:53:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Hiqus-0000w6-Lq for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 01 May 2007 04:53:12 -0700 Received: from mclmx2.mail.saic.com ([149.8.64.32] ident=[U2FsdGVkX18mEcuTj8QT2b72hMgyxgdQdhTKFWNVu4A=]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HiquL-0000vU-6H for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 01 May 2007 04:53:02 -0700 Received: from 0015-its-ieg01.mail.saic.com ([149.8.64.21] [149.8.64.21]) by mclmx2.mail.saic.com id BT-MMP-1027973 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 1 May 2007 07:52:17 -0400 Received: from 0015-its-exbh02.us.saic.com ([10.43.229.22]) by 0015-its-ieg01.mail.saic.com (SMSSMTP 4.0.5.66) with SMTP id M2007050107521711103 for ; Tue, 01 May 2007 07:52:17 -0400 Received: from 0456-its-exmp01.us.saic.com ([10.75.0.188]) by 0015-its-exbh02.us.saic.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 1 May 2007 07:52:17 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C78BE7.2AC0F32D" Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Hello All Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 07:52:17 -0400 Message-Id: <1189A858F8918F43BE3F9C7603C73FB4031E7CDF@0456-its-exmp01.us.saic.com> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [lojban-beginners] Re: Hello All Thread-Index: AceLx6I/s278uryiTuGLCQzFXIPixgAHnFPw From: "Turniansky, Michael" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 May 2007 11:52:17.0642 (UTC) FILETIME=[2AE0A4A0:01C78BE7] X-Spam-Score: -2.5 X-Spam-Score-Int: -24 X-Spam-Bar: -- X-archive-position: 4438 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: MICHAEL.A.TURNIANSKY@saic.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Content-Length: 6080 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C78BE7.2AC0F32D Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Spencer asks: =20 le sutra [ku] cu vecnu cukta [vau] The quick-one is a seller book. Another question, why does the above not mean "The quick-one sells books."? Does it need to be "le cukta" instead? If not, how would you get it to mean that?=20 ----------------- Two consecutive brivla ("predicate words") in a row always mean the first one modifes the second (This is called a tanru). "vecnu cukta" = =3D> "a seller/selling type of book", which could mean a book that sells (cf English "best-seller"), a book that tells people how to sell, etc. In order to fill the "slots" (sumti) of a predicate like "vecnu" (x1 sells x2 to x3 for x4) a brivla must be marked off in some way. Some words that can do this are the "articles", la/le/lo, etc. or numbers, "pa/re/ci, su'o", etc. "Pronouns" such as mi, do, ti, ko'a, etc. don't need this markers because they can only be sumti. =20 So "le sutra cu vecnu loi cukta" is what you are looking for. =20 I hope this is clear. Let me know if not. =20 --gejyspa =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C78BE7.2AC0F32D Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Spencer = asks:

le sutra [ku] cu vecnu cukta [vau]
The quick-one is a seller book.

Another question, why does the above not mean "The quick-one sells = books."? Does it need to be "le cukta" instead? If not, how = would you get it to mean that?
-----------------

Two consecutive brivla = ("predicate words") in a row always mean the first one modifes the second (This = is called a tanru). "vecnu cukta" =3D> "a = seller/selling type of book", which could mean a book that sells (cf English = "best-seller"), a book that tells people how to sell, etc. In order to fill = the "slots" (sumti) of a predicate like "vecnu" (x1 = sells x2 to x3 for x4) a brivla must be marked off in some way. Some words that can = do this are the "articles", la/le/lo, etc. or numbers, = "pa/re/ci, su'o", etc. "Pronouns" such as mi, do, ti, ko'a, etc. = don't need this markers because they can only be sumti.

So "le sutra cu vecnu = loi cukta" is what you are looking for.

= I hope this is = clear. Let me know if not.

= &= nbsp; --gejyspa

= &= nbsp; &n= bsp; &nb= sp;

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