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Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: My First Lojban Words 1.4
Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 11:28:17 -0400
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Thread-Topic: [lojban-beginners] Re: My First Lojban Words 1.4
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From: "Turniansky, Michael [UNK]" <MICHAEL.A.TURNIANSKY@saic.com>
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----------------
Listen Vid,

Of course, you need to "know" about grammar if
you want to put words together in a reasonable
way in order to form sentences. But I don't want to
teach this explicitly. I'd rather perfer that
beginners learn this implicitly or "intuitively".

How?

Well, by showing them properly formed sentences,
by having them repeat and use them. They will
"get used" to the grammar and be able to from
and understand sentences.

This is now kids learn their native language.
Without any explicit grammar training and
without knowing any grammar terms. I think
this whould work for adults, too. At least
for beginner.

Martin

 ----------------

  Take it from someone who has 5 kids.  That is NOT how kids learn
language.  They learn it because they hear native speakers conversing in
it around them 12 hours/day for 2-3 years.  They do not "repear and use"
properly formed sentences.   They start first with one word utterances
(Mama, Papa and No (or equivalents) being the usual first 3 words
learned after about a year of constant "study").  At the crtical age of
1-3 they pick up many new words a day, but grammar and so forth is still
iffy. Two word utterances such as "ball gone" are picked up usually late
in the second year.  They eventually spring to multi word sentences, but
are still not producing properly formed adult-style sentences, and will
do things like overly-generalize ("I runned with Daddy") as they begin
to intuit the rules of grammar, no matter how often they are corrected
(my 4-year-old still says, "I'm am....") (granted, that particular
problem isn't an issue with lojban, since the grammar is entirely
regular).  So, sure, if you want to spend a few years fluently
conversing in lojban around a frustrated adult beginner and correcting
his mistakes, you might have some success.  But that's not what you are
proposing here.  You are proposing a static word/phrase book without any
chance of learning grammar, which will possibly let them learn 117
words, but nothing else.  Certainly nothing higher than the "point and
gesture" stage. In general, second languages by older children and
adults are acquired much differently, using the fact that they already
understand how languages work.  You don't have to start them with ground
zero.

                  --gejysoa