Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 05 Jun 2007 11:22:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HvdfW-0003Wh-N4 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 05 Jun 2007 11:22:11 -0700 Received: from an-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.132.240]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HvdfT-0003WX-1h for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 05 Jun 2007 11:22:10 -0700 Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b21so462405ana for ; Tue, 05 Jun 2007 11:22:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=CTbLhudZlilwtPbSJuQkUXLIcup+VXUL2YMK5V2cBvuirw/qKMXR7nklKkFYzJwCZm4QAUNVWDEkUQbxwrONHJ4gftH3NgCoxMTyhqW1CD4jZTk+FfBgENQUXSg7A21oKCbILXuTqF6l14+1WTdIKCd5TJZ1TuLyIS0sbhfS64s= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=ejprvcf+jIA49vW7OMvz5P3R5jENTCP0EsqPaIaP2yiH595g6GjW26+NPZzXCUqsITA3axtm3E7rMxyGB7Fa131ihCITVXT0toA9wEB6zTId3H8o8M86wd6w9EJ7FHaleoaZEh4AF8Htd3bqEfoNVIjwSFLqrAs/vwjTIvRWE5E= Received: by 10.100.107.2 with SMTP id f2mr3503980anc.1181067724390; Tue, 05 Jun 2007 11:22:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.42.12 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Jun 2007 11:22:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560706051122x1746698dg2e689facdbafaf8b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 15:22:04 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: {sei} In-Reply-To: <23dc8c770706051024l4623a867m55d8379bd7f9b164@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <2f91285f0706050540o659c363frbb7f4cdc8a251ce5@mail.gmail.com> <1189A858F8918F43BE3F9C7603C73FB4031E7D7A@0456-its-exmp01.us.saic.com> <23dc8c770706051024l4623a867m55d8379bd7f9b164@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 4896 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Content-Length: 1242 On 6/5/07, Karl Naylor wrote: > What about: > > la .djan. cusku lu mi viska lo mlatu .i .ai mi tavla ri > > I would read {.i .ai mi tavla ri} as part of the quoted text expressed > by John, not as the quoter's own remark, in which case {li'u} is not > elidable except at the end of text. Chapter 19 Section 9.1 states > that {li'u} is almost never elidable except at the end of text, > supporting this interpretation. The grammar of the LU-construct is: LU text LIhU? So LIhU is technically elidable, but any grammatical text will remain within the quote until LIhU is found. An example where it could be elided is: lu mi viska lo mlatu cu se cusku la .djan. because {mi viska lo mlatu cu se cusku la .djan.} is not a grammatical text, so when the {cu} appears the quote must end. Personally, I prefer never to elide the terminators {li'u}, {toi} and {tu'o}, even when they could be elided, because I find the result quite confusing. All other terminators I prefer to elide whenever they can be elided. The particularity of these three is that they enclose a full text: LU text LIhU? TO text TOI? TUhE text-1 TUhO? mu'o mi'e xorxes