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Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2007 12:34:33 -0300
From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" <jjllambias@gmail.com>
To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org
Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: fanva 2
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On 6/2/07, Vid Sintef <picos.picos@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> la borat.sagdi,iev. me le kazak karnyfi'u co cfika fi'e la
> sacat.baron.koxen. no'u le brito jibxam
> Borat Sagdiyev is a fictional Kazakh journalist portrayed by British
> comedian Sacha Baron Cohen.
>
> * {kazak} is my invention (I couldn't find an official one).

{le kazak} should be {la kazak}. {jibxam} should be {jibyxajmi}.

> * {fi'e} is not meant to be a true translation of "portrayed by", but I
> think it's equally reasonable here.

It's ok, but {cfika} already has a place for the author, so you could
have used {fi}.

> .i le go'i cu ralju xalpre pe la'o gy Borat: Cultural Learnings of America
> for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan gy po'u le snada je selfapro
> casylis
> He is the eponymous protagonist of the controversial and successful
> mockumentary Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious
> Nation of Kazakhstan.

I'd say either use nonrestrictive {no'u} instead of {po'u}, or else reverse the
order of the two sumti, because I think it is the name that restricts the
description and not the other way around.

> * For "mockumentary" I'm experimenting with {casylis}.

Should be {casylisri}, lujvo end with a vowel.

> .i puku la baron.koxen. ba'o tigni le nalselcme je fange terlisri sepi'o le
> dunli selzgana ce le simsa seltra .i sepa'u bo la'o gy Comedy Nation gy pe
> la'o gy BBC Two gy de'i (the early-mid 1990s)
> Baron Cohen had played an unnamed foreign reporter, with identical looks and
> very similar mannerisms, as part of BBC Two's Comedy Nation in the early-mid
> 1990s.
>
> * I'm not sure for {sepi'o} since "looks" and "mannerisms" aren't material.

I'd use {jo'u} instead of {ce}.

Both readings are possible, but I think "with identical looks and very
similar mannerisms" refers to the unnamed reporter rather than to the
playing, so you could say {noi dunli simlu gi'e simsa tarti}.

> * I don't know what to do with the mutual referent (x2) of {dunli} and
> {simsa}, which is the character {la borat.sagdi,iev}.

I'm not sure what you mean by that.

> * {seltra} doesn't exactly convey the meaning of "mannerism".

{tecyseltra}?

> * I have no idea how to express "1990s".

Perhaps something like {le me li 1990 dekna'a}.

> .i de'i (the late 1990s) la baron. mo'u favgau le ny la borat.
> By the late 1990s he had developed this character into Borat.

No {le} in front of {ny}. {ny} is a sumti.

> * In spite of the past tense in the English, I didn't use {pu} because it
> seemed not necessary.

That's reasonable.

> .i ri se zvagau fi la'o gy Channel 4 gy de'i 1994 gi'e sevzi skicu lo vo'a
> seltivni fo lu le banli snada li'u
> (Borat was presented to Channel 4 in 1994,[1] and by late 2000 Borat was, in
> his own words, "great success".)

{de'i li 1994}

I think the idea here is not that Borat described himself as a great success,
but rather that the writer is using the way Borat talks to say that Borat was
a great success.

Perhaps something like: {gi'e sei lo by valsi cu se pilno ze'a fu'e
banli snada fu'o}.

The only problem is that {ri banli snada} is perfectly normal Lojban,
unlike the English "he was great success", which is presumably how
Borat talks (I haven't seen the movie).

> * I translated the latter "Borat" as {lo vo'a seltivni} since it must be the
> title of the tv program and not the character itself. Also I changed the
> sentence structure: whereas the English has two "Borat", the Lojban has one
> {ri}.
>
>
> .i la'o gy 20th Century Fox gy ba'o te pinka lesedu'u le balvi be le
> (popular) skina cu ca'o se pensi
> 20th Century Fox has stated that a sequel to the popular movie is currently
> being considered.[2][3]

{fi le se du'u}

> * Any suggestion for "popular"?

{sorpu'a}?

> * Lastly, how would you express in Lojban those annotation markers like
> [1][2][3]?

How about {to'i pa bu toi}?

{pa bu} rather than just {pa} because here the numbers are used as symbols,
it could also be a letter, or some other symbol like *.

mu'o mi'e xorxes