Message-ID: <1181440772.466b5b046ab10@ssl0.ovh.net>
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 03:59:32 +0200
From: m.kornig@sondal.net
To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org
Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: lojban-beginners Digest V6 #97
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Selon Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>:

> On 6/9/07, m.kornig@sondal.net <m.kornig@sondal.net> wrote:
> >
> > I would very much appreciate the view of an experienced
> > speaker about the sound of the vowel "e".

Thanks Jorge. I appreciate your help. I would very much
like to listen to these vowels. But I can't: My system
doesn't know how to play ogg files. And the information
I find on the internet about the specific plug-ins are
confusing and complicated :-(

Do you know of any mp3 documents with similar/same content??

> Listen to the sound samples at:
>
> [e]: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Close-mid_front_unrounded_vowel>
> [É›]: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-mid_front_unrounded_vowel>
>
> The Book says that the second one is the preferred one and the first
> one is an allowed variant. For me, it's the other way around, but either
> will do. Or you can use a true mid_front_unrounded, between
> close-mid and open-mid, not shown on the chart.

I'll go for the second one then.

> Similarly for /o/:
>
> [o]: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Close-mid_back_rounded_vowel>
> [É”]: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-mid_back_rounded_vowel>
>
> Either of them will do, or a mid_back_rounded in between, not shown.

So there is no recomandation, no preference at all?

I really hate Lojban for its "lassez-faire" attitude towards
pronunciation. Two vowels (possibly some consonants, the
"r" and the "l" for example)
pronounced differently, and beginners will have serious
difficulties in understanding. And I have not mentioned
differences with respect to pace and/or with respect to the
length of vowels.

It's as if you take English
speakers from all over the world (try Scotland, Yorkshire,
Australia, Southern England, India, Canada and Texas for a
start) and claim: "It's all the same. It doesn't matter."

I strongly believe it is not the same and it does matter.
Even for native English speakers!

One of the main differences between English and Lojban is
the number of speakers. In all the parts of the world I
mentioned above you have at least a million speakers enjoying
the regional accent, i.e. there is a good chance people
will find their neighbors and friends speak the same
accent, and therefore be able to communicate easily with
them.

With Lojban, having only some 50 speakers, I believe a
homogenous accent is much more important. It's almost a
necessity.

Martin