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Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 14:07:31 +0200
From: Klaus Schmirler <KSchmir@online.de>
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To:  lojban-beginners@lojban.org
Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: More phonology: voiced/unvoiced and  fricative/fricative
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Pierre Abbat schrieb:

> I came up with a tonguetwister {le xruki le ginxre xrixruba xu xrula cu 
> xrani?}.

Ironically, I find that the tongue is relatively uninvolved and 
certainly not twisted. Tongue stretcher?

The real difficulty seems to be to differentiate between the "real" xr 
combination and the ones with a syllable break betwen x and r. In 
other words, I stumble at "ginxre" and "xrixruba" because I try to 
pronounce everything the difficult way.

  I pronounce {xr} as a single sound, a simultaneous uvular and
> alveolar trill (i.e. ach-Laut and Spanish r at the same time). {rx} I 
> pronounce as two sounds.

I see that you make a distinction between the different orders, and it 
seems natural since I tend to do the same with these allophones. But 
my question from the first post applies: Is this allowed? I 
concentrated on the uvular r the its devoiced cousin x exactly because 
it forced me to keep the order straight.

  Some months ago we came up with some words with long
> {xr} sequences in them: {rirxrxrone}, the river Hron, and {rirxrxrazdani}, 
> the river Hrazdan. The latter forms a minimal pair with {rirxyxrazdani}. In 
> {rxrxr}, I pronounce the first /r/ as an alveolar trill, the second as a 
> vocalic alveolar trill, and the third as a trill simultaneous with the 
> second /r/.

The combination is really easy with the uvular r; just adding and 
stopping voice. But getting the numbers right is HARD!


klaus

> 
> Pierre
> 
> 
>