DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;        d=gmail.com; s=beta;        h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;        b=R20WeQD01UD/4K+Y2kPRbHjJu1uJYSo8az7D9LgWgMDbBujinKIvMBE+2sSz5jctsrN9CJ4dsMtwmODfQTW7BQuZUlQfPLh3s3ljazKDrbD0HEUXA61Z/Mc586xvTOryjqXX4oZ5bu0CqyFKfRuUSpOmxM6sYRSDdj58IPgkP7Q=
Message-ID: <925d17560707210701u5e05961exad1fe11544bade30@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 11:01:09 -0300
From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" <jjllambias@gmail.com>
To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org
Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: quoting several words?
In-Reply-To: <925d17560707200600o73482778k620e5dd35a4a984e@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Disposition: inline
References: <1184918820.46a06d247acb9@ssl0.ovh.net>
	 <925d17560707200600o73482778k620e5dd35a4a984e@mail.gmail.com>
Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org
Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org
Precedence: bulk
Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org
Content-Length: 1726

On 7/20/07, Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 7/20/07, m.kornig@sondal.net <m.kornig@sondal.net> wrote:
> >
> > I know the word {zo} for a one-word quote, e.g.
> > {zo maik cmene mi} "I'm Mike" or
> > {zo rut cmene ti} "This is Ruth".
[...]
> But {cmene} is probably not the best choice for introducing yourself or
> someone else. I'd go with {mi'e ...}, {ti me ...}

I think I will take that back, and clarify a bit more.

I think {cmene} is fine for introducing yourself or someone else, and
{mi'e} is not so good for that, because the primary function of {mi'e}
is to identify the speaker, not to introduce a suitable label for the
speaker. (In English, it's more like "it's me, Mike" as an answer to
"who is it?" than like "I'm Mike" as an answer to "who are you?".)

Having said that, I realize that my problem with the above sentences
is not so much the use of {cmene} for introductions, as the choice of
English translation.

{zo maik cmene mi} "My name is 'Mike'"
{mi me la maik} "I'm Mike"

{zo rut cmene ti} "Her name is 'Ruth'"
{ti me la rut} "This is Ruth"/"She's Ruth"

The difference between "my name is Mike" and "I'm Mike" might seem
trivial, and they might be interchangeable in most contexts, but if
"my name is Mike" is just as idiomatic as "I'm Mike", and it is more
accurate, I'd go with the accurate translation. This is because in Lojban,
the difference between use and mention of a name is important. When you
use the name, it's {la maik}, when you mention it, it's {zo maik}. Translating
a case of mention in Lojban, {zo maik cmene mi}, with a case of use in
English, "I'm Mike", blurs the distinction and that's probably not a good
idea in a course for beginners.

mu'o mi'e xorxes