Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 13 Aug 2007 04:11:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IKXpE-0008Fx-CU for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2007 04:11:11 -0700 Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com ([66.249.82.234]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IKXop-0008FS-Ax for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2007 04:10:58 -0700 Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i27so1075584wxd for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2007 04:10:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=XIJA3ZopPhIK0w0EITPgUXnu46uWg7gy2q7Ep9+NJIzzo1O+WyVdOji2a3cqUttLNmxmtJLY8/g0mTOc33x2Q0+AhSSeWHu3+3fn7MpTCsvIx2trqQtiRL110GQxX/Ljy/EwJYhZfFSfn/kuDyvurJNAdxOODdftWzX5xI1nvLM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=ouc1I7yzxC6fbxZ6vp+lLe/+NdbvVKpxqWvTknpgqTeyymHLIalkjCgZzRsaurxVylpEm7Al+uUYKkUxC2oF92xREJ5OycO/0viLAbFvTdeZacg9VuEeer5HHeLAesqUIcVBjJvxsJSAphNqXqu0pgRadj5r6FaQNxPSP3Ov/L8= Received: by 10.70.69.2 with SMTP id r2mr10139972wxa.1187003439655; Mon, 13 Aug 2007 04:10:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.38.7 with HTTP; Mon, 13 Aug 2007 04:10:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <2f91285f0708130410g245818a8tc6038a3c7254a822@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 12:10:39 +0100 From: "Vid Sintef" To: lojban-beginners Subject: [lojban-beginners] le vinji vs lo vinji MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Score: 0.1 X-Spam-Score-Int: 1 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 5358 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: picos.picos@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Content-Length: 647 Suppose a lojbanic child has found in a theme park a ride which looks like an airplane but which doesn't really fly. He wants to ride it. Now how should he call this object: {le vinji} as a truthful lojbanist who distinguishes things that are mental from things that are actual, or {lo vinji} as a child who often spends his time in a world of fantasy and is likely to be ignorant of such lies supplied by adults? In other words, will lojbanic children, if any, have to be trained in telling {le} from {lo}? Will the plate next to that toy ride, written for children, in a lojbanistan, have to be saying {le vinji} or {lo vinji}? mu'o mi'e vid