Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:31:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IKyMQ-00051H-Nl for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:31:11 -0700 Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com ([66.249.82.226]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IKyML-00050q-4Q for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:31:09 -0700 Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i27so1338163wxd for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:31:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=hdHRcaQYNrJpNxGzHx/gynahd5VZxV/jzu7WxFfga/NGtr+Trr6BSt5jpGTWZQrcwOxGGTk6ZUWKOAI3RCXAgpYFe85XaP8JVIhiuhJZxEAAQcsS+Kn5hRU/QzgakIh5ZaDm7yCkH1ofvH0jGMNJ8KUlocnqYjNB/4S+5C3cJ8c= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=mF5rEHwLmidQFugCZjTROOcypJLfGRu8+iKNkJCSCAfu5do3g7eplw34zEw9Q3zrjpq48xCBWwjYwF2SKOHZ23VX278vzPwZqwH2AFbBh8YiKtZBefEnnfE5YJZYTyG8SF0ThSX6pAtWyJBsdYx7cPA31rHoOZOg0lMwsKCxWNE= Received: by 10.70.70.7 with SMTP id s7mr2821397wxa.1187105460771; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:31:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.38.7 with HTTP; Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:31:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <2f91285f0708140831j25214ce5x4c75ad9dcb79f3b9@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 16:31:00 +0100 From: "Vid Sintef" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: le vinji vs lo vinji In-Reply-To: <925d17560708140644g57af032bv49695fca87fa5741@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <2f91285f0708130410g245818a8tc6038a3c7254a822@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560708130906y258edbe1m2854238c3041a975@mail.gmail.com> <2f91285f0708140559n1981eb32vd491bcdb7632abba@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560708140644g57af032bv49695fca87fa5741@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.1 X-Spam-Score-Int: 1 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 5363 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: picos.picos@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Content-Length: 1125 On 8/14/07, Jorge Llambías wrote: > No, the extended sense should fit the place structure. That's why > I have problems with the overspecific place structures given to > some gismu. Won't {zi'o} help? > I'm not sure what kind of ride you have in mind, but it might be: > > fi'i do'u ko se vinji ti lo banli vraga I'm having some difficulty in elaborating my point in English. I'll take another example. Suppose a child has come upon this spot: http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2006/02/17/disneyland_wideweb__470x349,0.jpg The child says: {.uacai lo gerku .e lo datka .e lo smacu cu kakne le nu remna dansu be lo zgike}. His utterance is not specifically addressing the three characters (le/la gerku, le/la datka, le/la smacu) he is looking at; rather he wants to mean that "at least one of all" (su'o lo ro) dogs and ducks and mouses in general can dance like humans do. But in reality it is not {lo gerku .e lo datka .e lo smacu} which are dancing there; it's humans themselves (right?). The child adds: {xu go'i}. Now what should his parents answer to that innocent question? mu'o mi'e vid