Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sat, 20 Oct 2007 07:58:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IjFmX-00067S-CD for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2007 07:58:29 -0700 Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.188]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IjFmU-00067G-QR for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2007 07:58:29 -0700 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 4so568670nfv for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2007 07:58:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=XZrFcp8RtxvrJxxW281e1uR57tpl49PFpxB9aiYkLgo=; b=uABNx1jrKyCYVXRJVjg10YTp9W6ddzBMvHndxxibiROZC8sg3ApFdJ4g1uk+VzEfAuqWjB3hagQTp5ffD5RQhkWo7KmVMlSsrXfXYM/CjpYWulWgKAUisn+yBFQb+t6LiiOZqq1Ov8WUgQ7B0YBDYIKssKFUkZ8Qfpi8j9ZeGgk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=FTHJsG1WgJKJLJHLEsYFJmXu10iI/dVfl/Juc3FTaSOBfCccCNPz9mFWsjT7DXOtDPaAM5DXkD88sVQS1H7H5MUCHQPhVJc6rO/yw2+7uA0Z+h2xQR+N3L87B8amu+L6ERSYwfV9pXDh1c2oypOoFWkdIThyOyESgoFf4gbntWg= Received: by 10.82.177.3 with SMTP id z3mr5640209bue.1192892304684; Sat, 20 Oct 2007 07:58:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.82.113.2 with HTTP; Sat, 20 Oct 2007 07:58:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <2204fa080710200758x33c58b73jce9087d4b8535274@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 10:58:24 -0400 From: "Jared Angell" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: some questions In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_11254_10774514.1192892304683" References: <2204fa080710200633i681486e4l234f44613140eb5e@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 5508 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: angell.jared@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Content-Length: 5008 ------=_Part_11254_10774514.1192892304683 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Thanks!!! I wonder how many world 'problems' would be 'solved' if everyone thought in the unambiguous manner forced upon someone by Lojban. On 10/20/07, Matt Arnold wrote: > > On 10/20/07, Jared Angell wrote: > > Can anyone here think in Lojban, and if so what is that like? > > Not easily. I can think of two or three people who can achieve it from > time to time with great effort. But the plain fact is that it would > require practice in real-time communication rather than reading and > writing. Because there are so few Lojbanists, all of whom are > connected over the internet when they are connected at all, at this > time there are few opportunities to use Lojban in a way that > cultivates thinking in it. > > > Wouldn't it be fairly easy to write a piece of software to translate > Lojban > > texts into English? > > http://www.lojban.org/jboski translates Lojban into an English gloss. > However, this is not proper English-- that would require solving the > problem of a computer understanding how to formulate proper English > sentences. > > > Why is it that it is so difficult to translate texts into Lojban? My > > understanding is that it is... > > Because Lojban is extremely alien. It's grammatical concepts and > structures have never existed in any naturally-occurring language. > > > Also...isn't keeping track of the place structures for every single word > is > > Lojban damn near impossible???? > > Difficult perhaps, for some. But it has been proven to be possible. > Most gismu follow a predictable place-structure pattern so they don't > have to all be memorized. > > -Eppcott > > > > -- Jared "There is no emotion, there is peace; there is no ignorance, there is knowledge; there is no passion, there is serenity; there is no death, there is the Universe" "Work smart when you can and hard if you must" "When a system is corrupt then it's time for a reformat" "Open Source: The light side of computing. It's never too late to join" ------=_Part_11254_10774514.1192892304683 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Thanks!!!

I wonder how many world 'problems' would  be 'solved' if everyone thought in the unambiguous manner forced upon someone by Lojban.

On 10/20/07, Matt Arnold <matt.mattarn@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10/20/07, Jared Angell <angell.jared@gmail.com> wrote:
> Can anyone here think in Lojban, and if so what is that like?

Not easily. I can think of two or three people who can achieve it from
time to time with great effort. But the plain fact is that it would
require practice in real-time communication rather than reading and
writing. Because there are so few Lojbanists, all of whom are
connected over the internet when they are connected at all, at this
time there are few opportunities to use Lojban in a way that
cultivates thinking in it.

> Wouldn't it be fairly easy to write a piece of software to translate Lojban
> texts into English?

http://www.lojban.org/jboski translates Lojban into an English gloss.
However, this is not proper English-- that would require solving the
problem of a computer understanding how to formulate proper English
sentences.

> Why is it that it is so difficult to translate texts into Lojban? My
> understanding is that it is...

Because Lojban is extremely alien. It's grammatical concepts and
structures have never existed in any naturally-occurring language.

> Also...isn't keeping track of the place structures for every single word is
> Lojban damn near impossible????

Difficult perhaps, for some. But it has been proven to be possible.
Most gismu follow a predictable place-structure pattern so they don't
have to all be memorized.

-Eppcott






--
Jared

"There is no emotion, there is peace;  there is no ignorance, there is knowledge;  there is no passion, there is serenity;  there is no death, there is the Universe"

"Work smart when you can and hard if you must"

"When a system is corrupt then it's time for a reformat"

"Open Source: The light side of computing.  It's never too late to join" ------=_Part_11254_10774514.1192892304683--