Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sun, 21 Oct 2007 10:50:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Ijewl-0005rx-7b for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 10:50:43 -0700 Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.184]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Ijewi-0005r9-Iu for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 10:50:42 -0700 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 4so697517nfv for ; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 10:50:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=i6fdNY4OwZY5m5rQyBdyB1F/5qesRXtJzVcdWmm6k+A=; b=lnCWpoUCo4DISqGaLMBqNJ8JisB1jGfdnnbC5dCaEC4LlT0r4Bsytb6Dm18dye5d4gQLcp7+4XHs32TDl2n/GQSUpThRZoro1iOfSoePXb9qITs65rstq+nV6EcInvkJ00tdFUCHYwfUCeM5s5AYsaNjvvc1hQMJBHrGL32gRns= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=iwErkvS5/vpz0uzTVHi7a58Diy+Az185rRr3xbY/0eWnvxaa0c5RECJLmEYRpIWU50NAkKAx8CmckziFbkrkolixxMWoEBojAaRouzXcwnba4BGNXUl+MHx/9cVZqa6IQSSvDEl1+p+NIpQrb7Q+PZRv1EeudS5pWXE32AcAUrc= Received: by 10.82.181.10 with SMTP id d10mr6804881buf.1192989033406; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 10:50:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.82.113.2 with HTTP; Sun, 21 Oct 2007 10:50:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <2204fa080710211050j64ef749btcfef852385281dbd@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 13:50:33 -0400 From: "Jared Angell" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: some questions In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_13787_7644757.1192989033364" References: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 5516 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: angell.jared@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Content-Length: 4737 ------=_Part_13787_7644757.1192989033364 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I have. I've been all over www.lojban.org a few times now. On 10/21/07, David Cortesi wrote: > > > From: "Jared Angell" > > > > Why is it that it is so difficult to translate texts into Lojban? My > > understanding is that it is... > > > *All* translation is difficult. The successful translator has to > assimilate the ideas from one text and render them in the other. This, as > the Wikipedia article ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translation) puts it, > > ordinarily requires not only the craft of good language skills and > > research, but substantive knowledge of the pertinent subject and culture, > > and of the art of writing. > > > The acknowledged difficulty of translating between two natlangs is > compounded with Lojban as a target because the vocabulary is severely > limited. Typically the translator has to spend a lot of time in the > satisfying but (for me) slow and difficult work of coining new {tanru} and > trying to decide if it's appropriate to convert them to {lujvo}. Or, when > Lojban is the source, of trying to unpack the original author's {lujvo} and > interpret the sense of her {tanru}. > > Go to www.lojban.org, click on "Texts in Lojban" and read for a while... > > > > -- Jared "There is no emotion, there is peace; there is no ignorance, there is knowledge; there is no passion, there is serenity; there is no death, there is the Universe" "Work smart when you can and hard if you must" "When a system is corrupt then it's time for a reformat" "Open Source: The light side of computing. It's never too late to join" ------=_Part_13787_7644757.1192989033364 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I have.  I've been all over www.lojban.org a few times now.

On 10/21/07, David Cortesi < davecortesi@gmail.com> wrote:

From: "Jared Angell" <angell.jared@gmail.com >

Why is it that it is so difficult to translate texts into Lojban? My
understanding is that it is...

*All* translation is difficult. The successful translator has to assimilate the ideas from one text and render them in the other. This, as the Wikipedia article ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translation) puts it,

ordinarily requires not only the craft of good language skills and research, but substantive knowledge of the pertinent subject and culture, and of the art of writing.

The acknowledged difficulty of translating between two natlangs is compounded with Lojban as a target because the vocabulary is severely limited. Typically the translator has to spend a lot of time in the satisfying but (for me) slow and difficult work of coining new {tanru} and trying to decide if it's appropriate to convert them to {lujvo}. Or, when Lojban is the source, of trying to unpack the original author's {lujvo} and interpret the sense of her {tanru}.

Go to www.lojban.org, click on "Texts in Lojban" and read for a while...






--
Jared

"There is no emotion, there is peace;  there is no ignorance, there is knowledge;  there is no passion, there is serenity;  there is no death, there is the Universe"

"Work smart when you can and hard if you must"

"When a system is corrupt then it's time for a reformat"

"Open Source: The light side of computing.  It's never too late to join" ------=_Part_13787_7644757.1192989033364--