Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 23 Oct 2007 12:04:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IkP3Z-0007dg-WE for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 12:04:50 -0700 Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.186]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IkP3X-0007dZ-Ou for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 12:04:49 -0700 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 4so1038570nfv for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 12:04:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=up6lMDf/WQGZW9lXoci9+xb0AEOrtx5NzF2MhjVSvqk=; b=OOISAID9/E9O2TF8OcT/iZliIjQ/9wwrF/m90t9Y+QWTLUv8bUyo48pT10j3y/NySezm0LzVT1naES/t4vB72foKKJUJynGsT/uvhL3gg/dOdKNZQYvwWyMlPnaKjZ8QgdarN5W9Ya61YGef9XRGzKX4TNBYOkfISdAHWl3ZFkU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=fE2jRg1Cy49NNVwUdHnnfcD8D7xKmNcKlWWMHrwNINmTgO5BuC7EGOJNwl5cnuJGJMjhNSufdc2P7op7abuequcqatWbafx3vgovhKo1R5W00SHj4dquHrDu3PQOOTT7dtHUTNiCfPUvGG4azC53Q6wOiL2L3OPqmVZLHyD+0e4= Received: by 10.86.98.18 with SMTP id v18mr4948807fgb.1193166286145; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 12:04:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.86.86.13 with HTTP; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 12:04:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560710231204u8176ab2v3637e3d267ccae41@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 16:04:46 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: learning to climb on floors In-Reply-To: <6ee9d0ca0710231113n4e2889adl8700f7e124a5c095@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <6ee9d0ca0710222351q7547a487q41a4e89b31ab2f30@mail.gmail.com> <200710230703.04940.phma@phma.optus.nu> <6ee9d0ca0710230707q775f2d89o8a33afd586c69b56@mail.gmail.com> <5e124660710230747q6dcb1da8y4e3fca5c10e4952f@mail.gmail.com> <6ee9d0ca0710231028y4e96cb86s6417bad09115c5cd@mail.gmail.com> <97f5058c0710231049k120b01a5o7dbbe705522431f2@mail.gmail.com> <6ee9d0ca0710231113n4e2889adl8700f7e124a5c095@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 5550 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Content-Length: 1195 On 10/23/07, John Daigle wrote: > > la kan,r cilre fe le zu'o cpare le loldi > > It parses on the translator as "Name is/does learning the activity of > climbing the floors". That seems closer to what I want, but it seems like > people are avoiding this usage. May I ask what is wrong with it? {djuno} and {cilre} are defined as knowing/learning some fact x2 about some subject x3. They are not really appropriate for knowing/learning how to _do_ something. Not even in the x3, since knowing or learning how to do something is not at all the same thing as knowing/learning facts about it. For knowing/learning how, one can use {certu}/{crebi'o}: la kanr certu lo nu cpare lo loldi Connor is adept at crawling on the floor. Connor knows how to crawl on the floor. la kanr crebi'o lo nu cpare lo loldi Connor becomes adept at crawling on the floor. Connor learns how to crawl on the floor. > Finally, does my use of binxo make sense to use instead, to indicate the > internal transformation from one who is unable to crawl to one who is able > to crawl? Yes, {la kanr binxo lo cpare be lo loldi} says "Connor becomes a floor-crawler". mu'o mi'e xorxes