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Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 21:17:54 +0800
From: Penguino <spheniscine@gmail.com>
To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org
Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: learning to climb on floors
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Interesting. I'm wondering, since crebi'o literally means "become expert
at", would it more properly refer to the actual acquisition of the skill,
and not the process? Perhaps the OP can be better rephrased as "Connor is
trying to become expert at crawling"; la kanr. troci lezu'o crebi'o lezu'o
cidydzu? Of course this makes the sentence quite complicated. Maybe a new
word is needed, crebixtoi "try to become expert at" perhaps?

"Do or do not, there is no try." zo'o

On 10/24/07, Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 10/24/07, Yoav Nir <yoav.nir@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Isn't {crebi'o} optimistic?  Doesn't it asuume that Connor will become
> > proficient in crawling?
>
> Yes, and so does English "learn".
>
> You may study a lot and never learn anything, but once you've learned
> something, you know it. Connor may try and try to crawl, and never
> succeed, but once he has learned how, he knows how.
>
> > Besides, I thought that learning how to is also cilre, because that's
> the
> > word used in the title of L4B.  Surely lojban is not a fact, but rather
> > something you learn how to do.  Should I say {mi crebi'o la lojban}
> rather
> > than {mi cilre [fi] la lojban} ?
>
> I'm sure {djuno} and {cilre} have often been used for knowing/learning ho=
w
> to do something. Perhaps usage will end up redefining these words with
> that wider sense, so that they are not only about knowledge but also abou=
t
> skill. But the definitions as written say they're about knowing/learning
> facts.
>
> Someone may learn a lot of facts about Lojban without learning how to
> speak Lojban. One thing is acquisition of knowledge, another thing is
> acquisition of skill.
>
> mu'o mi'e xorxes
>
>
>
>

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Interesting. I&#39;m wondering, since <span style=3D"font-style: italic;">c=
rebi&#39;o</span> literally means &quot;become expert at&quot;, would it mo=
re properly refer to the actual acquisition of the skill, and not the proce=
ss? Perhaps the OP can be better rephrased as &quot;Connor is trying to bec=
ome expert at crawling&quot;;=20
<span style=3D"font-style: italic;">la kanr. troci lezu&#39;o crebi&#39;o l=
ezu&#39;o cidydzu</span>? Of course this makes the sentence quite complicat=
ed. Maybe a new word is needed, <span style=3D"font-style: italic;">crebixt=
oi
</span> &quot;try to become expert at&quot; perhaps?<br><br>&quot;Do or do =
not, there is no try.&quot; zo&#39;o<br><br><div><span class=3D"gmail_quote=
">On 10/24/07, <b class=3D"gmail_sendername">Jorge Llamb=EDas</b> &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:jjllambias@gmail.com">
jjllambias@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"=
 style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.=
8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">On 10/24/07, Yoav Nir &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:yoav.n=
ir@gmail.com">
yoav.nir@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>&gt; Isn&#39;t {crebi&#39;o} optimisti=
c?&nbsp;&nbsp;Doesn&#39;t it asuume that Connor will become<br>&gt; profici=
ent in crawling?<br><br>Yes, and so does English &quot;learn&quot;.<br><br>=
You may study a lot and never learn anything, but once you&#39;ve learned
<br>something, you know it. Connor may try and try to crawl, and never<br>s=
ucceed, but once he has learned how, he knows how.<br><br>&gt; Besides, I t=
hought that learning how to is also cilre, because that&#39;s the<br>&gt; w=
ord used in the title of L4B.&nbsp;&nbsp;Surely lojban is not a fact, but r=
ather
<br>&gt; something you learn how to do.&nbsp;&nbsp;Should I say {mi crebi&#=
39;o la lojban} rather<br>&gt; than {mi cilre [fi] la lojban} ?<br><br>I=
9;m sure {djuno} and {cilre} have often been used for knowing/learning how<=
br>to do something. Perhaps usage will end up redefining these words with
<br>that wider sense, so that they are not only about knowledge but also ab=
out<br>skill. But the definitions as written say they&#39;re about knowing/=
learning facts.<br><br>Someone may learn a lot of facts about Lojban withou=
t learning how to
<br>speak Lojban. One thing is acquisition of knowledge, another thing is<b=
r>acquisition of skill.<br><br>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e xorxes<br><br><br><br></bl=
ockquote></div><br>

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