Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 29 Oct 2007 07:46:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1ImVsj-0001BC-Jl for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 29 Oct 2007 07:46:22 -0700 Received: from an-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.132.244]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1ImVsf-0001Au-QY for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 29 Oct 2007 07:46:20 -0700 Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c23so221148anc for ; Mon, 29 Oct 2007 07:46:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=63janWzR5PHadlPXCDqfL85hkk/MASMKMSz5P9VLgPQ=; b=D/j/x9k+0LTJZau5THjMUP5xl7agpFq5H418g4ZxSq0KcZqwpUMqGIHGiJBA5Qy8KhY1uzExd8qItHzge/Kw1EFZebR02HS80yAyMNYDxlitmU+17hh0zGWQaWRIyto5DeFTy5ie9xyJnLqofSysHXzWaHAl3diSPEAC5jGJ4cc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=HDzpkozpwL/QFVPHxOIKJG0+X16v+/ozBHDX7tuDAmf14MEgzleNoTWyc/GBXtEKgBN9iSfTmCXiWQL8XLnaPr+xl9plPSySg3YL8C6K1ooRatEMP+vqYD2o12Hva26lmds1JW7Do1RwRIXKAI+muhQ2UsO80HrAeNhuHT/bnRk= Received: by 10.142.103.6 with SMTP id a6mr1299935wfc.1193669171258; Mon, 29 Oct 2007 07:46:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.107.8 with HTTP; Mon, 29 Oct 2007 07:46:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <975a94850710290746m65f6ed94sd31753006834dbb7@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 07:46:11 -0700 From: "Joel Shellman" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Quick Reference Guide for language words In-Reply-To: <4725DDC4.3040405@lojban.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <975a94850710270735t210f5212s8d39dd0003c08578@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560710270759i39867469o9ff60e75905c59c0@mail.gmail.com> <2204fa080710270924k2a9b6cbby3b2926a935773b9f@mail.gmail.com> <975a94850710271658m5bdfbb23y7a0c7b271ad5acba@mail.gmail.com> <4724B538.7070800@lojban.org> <975a94850710290008j65ffe239sdf5b6acc9c6dea13@mail.gmail.com> <4725DDC4.3040405@lojban.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 5739 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jshellman@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Content-Length: 1348 On 10/29/07, Robert LeChevalier wrote: > > Given the restriction of no unrelated meanings, the metaphoric > > intellectual giant I would expect is impossible in lojban--or perhaps > > what I mean is that it would not be metaphoric. Would you say > > "intellectual man-of-great-physical-size"? You might, but it would not > > mean what we generally mean in English by intellectual giant. Perhaps > > I'm missing something? > > Is a "giant" necessarily of "great physical size". In English it is > not, as evidenced by ... "intellectual giant". My understanding is English allows multiple unrelated definitions, lojban does not. I would suggest that the "metaphoric" nature of intellectual giant is only because in English, giant can mean several different things. I would expect the definitions for "a being with human form but superhuman size, strength, etc." and "greater or more eminent than others" are sufficiently unrelated as to not be allowed to be attributed to the same word in lojban. Ah... but that second definition is an adjective, not a noun. Given the usage here, it might be required to be considered metaphorical because of the usage in English. Moving over to lojban, though... I'm still not sure about this because these are two somewhat unrelated meanings and so would seem that it might be not allowed.