Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sat, 01 Dec 2007 22:30:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1IyiLW-0006p6-QG for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sat, 01 Dec 2007 22:30:31 -0800 Received: from rv-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.198.191]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1IyiLR-0006ou-UL for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sat, 01 Dec 2007 22:30:30 -0800 Received: by rv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id b22so2266655rvf for ; Sat, 01 Dec 2007 22:30:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=2kpNSiCmSy8GdPqGAZPB2iojgKFNJsJ78NQPMgB405Q=; b=nAjyZi9Cn+FwuDOrkDC2JfOoGHTj/3HjAhKHACbnuRVcy6w5x8gCxABQBhZPRcN5twHNPhuxnvXxAXTfN0K2f2apo/bycMhIqPYK4xHh/k/NXcPh30CiIvUoq2Ehue9+YPqV5gzJxk2FtxV6QO8Wy6PHXVcVtow2N6wx64ZvXnM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=jZP7d9jWcodhaS9HmWRk0vNK6Rp4vm3dLxwJ0RsLtucX9DbVx90NOibnTLKnSegrLSRzY47nplEnR65ZN/U+0M9bUgnyj/Gvgwgpf3oG4ZckMXUxYVMmSFUg0MXApk+YQ9kAgK79mvK/iEag1sKJbnsyQkFtIZ8pL8IUTry5IZQ= Received: by 10.141.22.1 with SMTP id z1mr2013858rvi.1196577024519; Sat, 01 Dec 2007 22:30:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.147.16 with HTTP; Sat, 1 Dec 2007 22:30:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <97f5058c0712012230s63574360w800eaa5dcf3935a4@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 14:30:24 +0800 From: Penguino To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Strange modals In-Reply-To: <97f5058c0711301941s6e75c1e1r267365a71ab1bc04@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_4316_23816458.1196577024677" References: <593656.48498.qm@web88013.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <97f5058c0711301941s6e75c1e1r267365a71ab1bc04@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.1 X-Spam-Score-Int: 1 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 5837 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: spheniscine@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Content-Length: 4220 ------=_Part_4316_23816458.1196577024677 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline The *ma'oste *says that *di'o* alone can be used to mean "at the locus of (object)". On Dec 1, 2007 11:41 AM, Penguino wrote: > *di'o* would probably mean "with locally-confined thing"... probably not > as useful. > > > On Dec 1, 2007 10:49 AM, A. PIEKARSKI wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: Jorge Llamb=EDas > > To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org > > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 6:35:33 PM > > Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Strange modals > > > > On Nov 29, 2007 12:33 PM, A. PIEKARSKI < totus@rogers.com> wrote: > > > I must admit I still have problems knowing when to use {di'o} and > > when to use {tu'i}. > > > > The general way to indicate a location is {bu'u}, which only indicates > > location. > > {sedi'o} indicates location+confinement. {tu'i} indicates > > location+permanence. > > In cases of location+permaence+confinement both {sedi'o} and {tu'i} may > > apply, and which one to use may depend on what you want to emphasize > > more. > > > > zvati: x1 is located in x2. > > se stuzi: x1 is permanently located in x2. > > diklo: x1 is located in x2 and nowhere else within x3. > > > > I may now be clearer on {sedio} and {tu'i} but am even more fuzzy on th= e > > distinction between {di'o} and {se di'o}. Both seem to mean the same t= hing, > > at least sometimes. Is that so? > > > > mu'o mi'e andrus > > > > > ------=_Part_4316_23816458.1196577024677 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline The ma'oste says that di'o alone can be used to mean = "at the locus of (object)".

On = Dec 1, 2007 11:41 AM, Penguino < spheniscine@gmail.com> wrote:
di'o would probably mean "with local= ly-confined thing"... probably not as useful.


On= Dec 1, 2007 10:49 AM, A. PIEKARSKI <totus@rogers.com > wrote:
----- Original Message ----
From: Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com= >
To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 6:35:33 = PM
Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Strange modals

On Nov 29, 2007= 12:33 PM, A. PIEKARSKI < totus@rogers.com> wrote:
>  I must admit I still have pro= blems knowing when to use {di'o} and when to use {tu'i}.

The= general way to indicate a location is {bu'u}, which only indicates
location.
{sedi'o} indicates location+confinement. {tu'i} indicates locat= ion+permanence.
In cases of location+permaence+confinement both {sedi= 9;o} and {tu'i} may
apply, and which one to use may depend on what y= ou want to emphasize more.

zvati: x1 is located in x2.
se stuzi: x1 is permanently located = in x2.
diklo: x1 is located in x2 and nowhere else within x3.

I may now be clearer on {sedio} and {tu'i} but am even more fuzzy on the distinction between {= di'o} and {se di'o}.  Both seem to mean the same thing, at lea= st sometimes.  Is that so?

mu'o mi'e andrus

<= /div>

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