From: Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu>
To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org
Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: fu'ivla
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 08:51:42 -0500
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On Sunday 14 December 2008 07:59:05 Tom Gysel wrote:
> Hallo,
> Fu'ivla type 3's are a whole mouthful to pronounce. I have to look many
> times before i grasp what I see.
>
> Is it gramattically ok in writing to insert an 'y'  :
> eg. cidjyrkari for cidjrkari. We pronounce it as cidjyrkari anyway, and it
> improves readability.

No. A brivla that contains 'y' always a lujvo, and "rkari" cannot be 
decomposed to rafsi.

How do you pronounce 'r'? Does your language have any vocalic 'r'?

> And what about a comma, can we write:
> eg;  cidjr,kari (for cidjrkari)
> eg:  cirlr,bri (instead of the eyebending cirlrbri),
> or even cirlyr,bri ??
>
> Solutions like this would improve readability for me, I could even
> pronounce the word the FIRST time I read it (and not after straining my
> eyes five times) :) But is it grammatically correct?
> For all I have been able to find: yes.

Inserting a comma in a word is grammatically correct and makes no difference 
to the word's identity. The only place it makes any difference is between the 
last two vowels of a brivla that ends in a diphthong if the stress is 
written, and IIRR xorxes disagrees with me on this. E.g. {spatr,xápio} vs. 
{spat,rxapí,o}.

If you think "cidjrkari" is hard, try "rirxrxrazdani rirxyxrazdani". The first 
word means a river in Armenia.

Pierre