Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 12 Jan 2009 21:12:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LMbZL-0001L2-SW for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 12 Jan 2009 21:12:03 -0800 Received: from mail-bw0-f12.google.com ([209.85.218.12]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LMbZI-0001J5-4I for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 12 Jan 2009 21:12:03 -0800 Received: by bwz5 with SMTP id 5so22037041bwz.10 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 2009 21:11:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=mBSUSfeArcAUa7KKdjuNEhDz56Q39DyEfgXNMkfzaII=; b=vK2WQD0soFwqWbrLt5STCc/YuIxAfwMJXfxEzdzaXdk9zYD8jh/BNX3ycJOFwRRV01 MpTK1XMZcttUaPt/WyNLuu9jKF1rZi90ien8dGgItoov8d7NW89/xMTx4wzhmlAnXy1r /gzMtyjPEHPmmOgqYrzRQKowQGQNBoz3tDZ1w= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references; b=W6E9qwLucJmGmHJpvRY3gi6ul5bJJBQhgWjZx0J7U5EorrYUiaRIx1V4DHKlvzDxuQ dSPaBigLHLUesMVa/ol0rxvqIBQNkcHoJrr19WIB6EmQzyxUSBlkeDWAui/ZUwYgxrav 7MJI7oMFavbqQEWQBXxogZ+eX+6X2aB/PMvng= Received: by 10.223.107.199 with SMTP id c7mr22198849fap.31.1231823505579; Mon, 12 Jan 2009 21:11:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.223.109.195 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Jan 2009 21:11:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 00:11:45 -0500 From: "Brett Williams" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: xelfanva In-Reply-To: <20090113001704.GA13721@sdf.lonestar.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_472849_18172002.1231823505574" References: <20090113001704.GA13721@sdf.lonestar.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 1167 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mungojelly@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Content-Length: 14187 ------=_Part_472849_18172002.1231823505574 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 7:17 PM, Minimiscience wrote: > coi certu coi do .i mi milxe po'o certu that's a lot of sentences! i've commented on a few.. > > "In Lojbanistan, language mangles you!" > - vi la lojbangug. lo bangu cu daspo do > - Is "{vi}" the right word to use here? i would say "bu'u la jbogu'e" "vi" there is more like nearby > > > "All Lojban is divided into three parts [i.e., three types of words]." > - piro la lojban. selterfendi lo cimei > - I'm not clear on whether the x3 of "{fendi}" is a mass, a quantity of > individuals, or a set; should a "{se}" or "{te}" be inserted before > "{cimei}"? zo selterfendi zo'u mi se cfipu .i va'i mi se se te te ve ve xe xe se cfipu > > > "The most essential right of man is the right to question." > - lo traji jicmu selzi'e be loi remna du lo selzi'e po'u lonu senpi "traji jicmu selzi'e" might get the point across, but the whole sentence doesn't feel very lojbanic i'd just translate it as like "le nu senpi cu traji lo ka vajni kei lo ka zmadu kei le'i se zifre", or, ta'unai, "le nu senpi cu vajni traji fo le'i se zifre" > > > "In his house at R'lyeh dead Cthulhu waits dreaming." > - ne'i le vo'a zdani be vi la rliex. la noi morsi .ktulxus. senva denpa > - I'm not sure about the {tanru} at the end. Also, should "{vi}" be > changed > to "{sedi'o}"? i like that tanru no one ever says "sedi'o".. "bu'u" might be better > > "If there's nothing out there, what was that noise?" > - ganai da'i noda va bartu gi ma pu va savru I think this is ganai/gi abuse.. i think you're asking: "what is there that was a noise if nothing was outside, or perhaps otherwise, but wasn't a noise if there wasn't nothing outside?" or something crazy like that. i'd just say something like ".ia nai no da va bartu .i ma pu va savru".. but if you wanted some more connection maybe ".ia nai no da va bartu .i ma pu va savru va'o lo da'i nu go'i" > > > "Don't listen to me; listen to the words that I say." > - ko na judytirna mi .i ko judytirna loi valsi poi mi cusku i'd just say "ko jundi mi na .e le se cusku be mi" since that's such a good opportunity to use that funky unique lojban connection style :) > > > "There is no magic in this world." > - no makfa cu nenri lo vi munje > - Should "{nenri}" be changed to "{se vasru}" or "{zvati}"? i dunno, what is it that's magic and is it really in or at? especially tricky question i guess since these are theoretical nonexistent only makfa maybe just "no nu makfa cu fasnu bu'u le vi terdi" > > > "What can happen once can happen again." > - lo paroi se kakne cu rere'u se kakne > OR > - lo ka'e fasnu cu ka'e selkrefu > - I'm more confident about the accuracy of the latter, but I'd prefer the > former, as it's closer to the English wording. a "se kakne" is something which someone is able to do under some circumstances "ka'e" is somewhat controversial but probably vaguer than you meant maybe "so'i pa moi fasnu cu za'u roi fasnu" > > > "Your cryptic message fills me with a nameless dread." > - le do cizra notci cu kairgau mi lo nalselcme kamte'a > - Should "{kairgau}" be changed to "{cnigau}"? i've never seen "kairgau" before but it makes sense to me like that you might or might not want to use the popular new term for nameless: "caucme".. it's a weird lujvo though, and maybe not the best connotations for this sentence, so maybe nalselcme is best > > > "If you think about The Game, you lose The Game." > - do la terjvi ganai pensi gi fliba > - No, I'm not going to use "{selkei}"; the Game is not a plaything. .i ku'i pau la'o gy The Game gy cu jivna ba'e fo ma (But The Game is a competition for *what gain*?) .i ju'o cu'i za'e zo crijva da'i cmene (Maybe "crijva" (losing-rule) could be the name.) > > > "Reason #10DF1 to learn Lojban: No one speaks English anymore." > - lo panojauvaipa moi krinu be lonu cilre fi la lojban. zo'u > noda ca'o se bangu la gliban. > - I'm really not sure about my choice of "{ca'o}" to approximate > "anymore." that's how i'd understand it in that context > > "May you live in interesting times." > - .au do lifri lo cinri cedra ".a'o" might be more appropriate, ".au" is usually i personally want this to occur, so that feels to me like "i want you to live in interesting times" maybe even "ca'e" would be good > > > Finally, it's well past time for me to translate my username > (Minimiscience) > into Lojban. Fully "expanded", it should translate as "{la ka djuno lo > mecrai}"; would "{la kamymecraijun.}" be the best {lujvo cmene} for it? > .ua coi doi kamymecraijun (aha, hello there kamymecraijun) .i zo kamymecraijun melbi .i'e gi'e ge'e mutce clani (kamymecraijun is beautiful, and very long) mu'o mi'e la stela se ckiku (to ji'a clani toi) (cya i'm "la stela se ckiku" (also long)) ------=_Part_472849_18172002.1231823505574 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline

On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 7:17 PM, Minimiscience <minimiscience@gmail.com> wrote:
coi certu
coi do .i mi milxe po'o certu 
that's a lot of sentences!  i've commented on a few.. 
 

"In Lojbanistan, language mangles you!"
 - vi la lojbangug. lo bangu cu daspo do
 - Is "{vi}" the right word to use here?
i would say "bu'u la jbogu'e" 
"vi" there is more like nearby 
 


"All Lojban is divided into three parts [i.e., three types of words]."
 - piro la lojban. selterfendi lo cimei
 - I'm not clear on whether the x3 of "{fendi}" is a mass, a quantity of
  individuals, or a set; should a "{se}" or "{te}" be inserted before
  "{cimei}"?
zo selterfendi zo'u mi se cfipu .i va'i mi se se te te ve ve xe xe se cfipu 
 
 


"The most essential right of man is the right to question."
 - lo traji jicmu selzi'e be loi remna du lo selzi'e po'u lonu senpi
"traji jicmu selzi'e" might get the point across, but the whole sentence doesn't feel very lojbanic 
 
i'd just translate it as like "le nu senpi cu traji lo ka vajni kei lo ka zmadu kei le'i se zifre", or, ta'unai, 
"le nu senpi cu vajni traji fo le'i se zifre" 
 


"In his house at R'lyeh dead Cthulhu waits dreaming."
 - ne'i le vo'a zdani be vi la rliex. la noi morsi .ktulxus. senva denpa
 - I'm not sure about the {tanru} at the end.  Also, should "{vi}" be changed
  to "{sedi'o}"?
i like that tanru
no one ever says "sedi'o"..  "bu'u" might be better 
 

"If there's nothing out there, what was that noise?"
 - ganai da'i noda va bartu gi ma pu va savru
I think this is ganai/gi abuse.. i think you're asking: "what is there that was a noise if nothing was outside, or perhaps otherwise, but wasn't a noise if there wasn't nothing outside?" or something crazy like that. 
 
i'd just say something like ".ia nai no da va bartu .i ma pu va savru".. but if you wanted some more connection maybe ".ia nai no da va bartu .i ma pu va savru va'o lo da'i nu go'i" 
 


"Don't listen to me; listen to the words that I say."
 - ko na judytirna mi .i ko judytirna loi valsi poi mi cusku
i'd just say 
"ko jundi mi na .e le se cusku be mi" 
since that's such a good opportunity to use that funky unique lojban connection style :) 
 


"There is no magic in this world."
 - no makfa cu nenri lo vi munje
 - Should "{nenri}" be changed to "{se vasru}" or "{zvati}"?
i dunno, what is it that's magic and is it really in or at?  especially tricky question i guess since these are theoretical nonexistent only makfa 
 
maybe just "no nu makfa cu fasnu bu'u le vi terdi" 
 


"What can happen once can happen again."
 - lo paroi se kakne cu rere'u se kakne
 OR
 - lo ka'e fasnu cu ka'e selkrefu
 - I'm more confident about the accuracy of the latter, but I'd prefer the
  former, as it's closer to the English wording.
a "se kakne" is something which someone is able to do under some circumstances 
"ka'e" is somewhat controversial but probably vaguer than you meant 
maybe "so'i pa moi fasnu cu za'u roi fasnu" 
 


"Your cryptic message fills me with a nameless dread."
 - le do cizra notci cu kairgau mi lo nalselcme kamte'a
 - Should "{kairgau}" be changed to "{cnigau}"?
i've never seen "kairgau" before but it makes sense to me like that 
you might or might not want to use the popular new term for nameless: "caucme".. it's a weird lujvo though, and maybe not the best connotations for this sentence, so maybe nalselcme is best 
 


"If you think about The Game, you lose The Game."
 - do la terjvi ganai pensi gi fliba
 - No, I'm not going to use "{selkei}"; the Game is not a plaything.
.i ku'i pau la'o gy The Game gy cu jivna ba'e fo ma 
(But The Game is a competition for *what gain*?)
.i ju'o cu'i za'e zo crijva da'i cmene 
(Maybe "crijva" (losing-rule) could be the name.) 
 


"Reason #10DF1 to learn Lojban: No one speaks English anymore."
 - lo panojauvaipa moi krinu be lonu cilre fi la lojban. zo'u
  noda ca'o se bangu la gliban.
 - I'm really not sure about my choice of "{ca'o}" to approximate "anymore."
that's how i'd understand it in that context
 

"May you live in interesting times."
 - .au do lifri lo cinri cedra
".a'o" might be more appropriate, ".au" is usually i personally want this to occur, so that feels to me like "i want you to live in interesting times" 
maybe even "ca'e" would be good 


Finally, it's well past time for me to translate my username (Minimiscience)
into Lojban.  Fully "expanded", it should translate as "{la ka djuno lo
mecrai}"; would "{la kamymecraijun.}" be the best {lujvo cmene} for it?
.ua coi doi kamymecraijun
(aha, hello there kamymecraijun)
.i zo kamymecraijun melbi .i'e gi'e ge'e mutce clani 
(kamymecraijun is beautiful, and very long)  
mu'o mi'e la stela se ckiku  (to ji'a clani toi)
(cya i'm "la stela se ckiku" (also long)) 
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