Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 18 Mar 2009 06:36:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LjvwN-0004IR-RI for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 18 Mar 2009 06:36:15 -0700 Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.120]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LjvwF-0004Gg-M8 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 18 Mar 2009 06:36:15 -0700 Received: from chausie ([71.75.215.96]) by cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090318133601.HXKA6142.cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com@chausie> for ; Wed, 18 Mar 2009 13:36:01 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F070403A for ; Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:36:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Preliminary chapter 1 for Lojban learners Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 08:35:53 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) References: <925d17560903180544o4d023061u72b410b5bf73bc31@mail.gmail.com> <96f789a60903180559m16c4b85cyedfdfe9a59db4153@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <96f789a60903180559m16c4b85cyedfdfe9a59db4153@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200903180935.55023.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 1446 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: phma@phma.optus.nu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Content-Length: 1257 On Wednesday 18 March 2009 08:59:42 Michael Turniansky wrote: > Says who? Unlike cmavo, stress may in fact be the only difference > in cmevla between two differently named things. If I have one friend > named BArux, and another name baRUX, I can distinguish them in speech > by use of stress, and I can distinguish them in writing by use of > capitals. And if I don't choose to use the capitals, then the refgram > says it's the former, not the latter, that I must be talking about. > (Chapter 4, section 8: "Names may have almost any form, but always end > in a consonant, and are followed by a pause. They are penultimately > stressed, unless unusual stress is marked with capitalization.") Two names can also be distinguished by tone or by two sounds that are allophones in Lojban. There are two Chinese provinces called "Shanxi" in different tones (in English one is spelled "Shaanxi", but it's a difference in tone, not vowel length). There are Ming (a dynasty, and someone I knew) and Min (a group of Chinese dialects). And some languages (e.g. French, in some analyses, though I grew up with final stress) have neither stress nor tone. If words with no stress indicated have penultimate stress, how do you indicate no stress? Pierre