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Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 09:27:55 +0200
Message-ID: <5a3750120903032327v653fd950u7ae2bbfa787d11d7@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: grammar check for my first few sentences
From: Oleksii Melnyk <lamelnyk@gmail.com>
To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org
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>lo nu la .lojban. zenba lo ka ricfu ba jalge loi nu do pilno

xu so'o zo kei poi lidne zo ba cu drani zo'e di'u lo gerna be la lojban.

2009/3/4, Stela Selckiku <selckiku@gmail.com>:
> On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Alan Post
> <alanpost+keyword+lojban.420f97@sunflowerriver.org> wrote:
>> I've begun the process of memorizing vocabulary, and have selected
>> the first few words from Robin Lee Powell's flashcards[1].  I'm
>> constructing sentences using these words, and I'd like to know if my
>> sentences are gramatical.
>
>
> .ui do cusku lo lojbo
> (Yay, you say something lojbanic!)
>
> .i mi morij fi lei nu mi co'a lojbo cusku
> (I remember about when I started to speak lojbanically.)
>
> .i le te go'i cu te cinmo fi mi
> (That was something I felt emotion about.)
>
> .i .a'o do simsa gleki .o'a dai
> (Hopefully you're similarly happy, proudly.)
>
>
>
>> I'm not sure that saying "le mlatu" in the x2 is proper.  I'm not
>> sure if the x2 place of cusku permits saying "the cat" or whether I
>> need a different or additional word.
>
>
> No, sorry, a cat cannot usually be the second place of "cusku".  (I
> think the crazy cat lady in the Simpsons may have an idiolect where
> cat throwing can be symbolic, but no one else seems to understand!)
> The second place of "cusku", known as a selcusku or selsku, is
> generally a specific expression, almost always a series of symbols.
> Like "mi cusku lu mi cusku li'u", I say the utterance "mi cusku", or
> less specifically "mi cusku lo jufra", I say a sentence.
>
> There are plenty of ways to stuff a cat into the second place of
> "cusku", but I'm not going to teach you any of them.  Instead, I am
> going to teach you about another word with a slightly different
> structure, "tavla".  The arguments you gave (me, a cat, you, and
> Lojban) fit into "tavla" perfectly to say what you were saying, but in
> a slightly different order:
>
> mi tavla do le mlatu la lojban
> (I talk to you about the cat in Lojban.)
>
> Often the arguments a gismu takes and their order can tell you a lot
> about its spirit.  Both "cusku" and "tavla" are at root about someone,
> the cusku or the tavla, who's saying something.  With "cusku" the next
> place is the words that they said-- "cusku" is mostly about saying
> some particular words.  The third place of "cusku", the tersku, is who
> those words are said to.  Another simpler word in the family is
> "bacru", utter; there the x2 is just any sound that comes out of your
> mouth, not even necessarily words, and there's no place for who you're
> bacru-ing at, you might just be bleating with no thought of an
> audience.  But in order to "cusku" you need a tersku, someone you
> express to, and a velsku, a means of communication which connects you
> to them so that they can receive your message.  The emphasis with
> "tavla" is a little different.  A tavla is someone who's saying stuff,
> but the next place, the selta'a, is who they're saying it to.  The
> main point of tavla-ing is that there's someone it's directed at.
> Then the x3, the terta'a, is a subject about which you're talking.
> The fourth place, the velta'a, is a language.
>
> So "cusku" shows a relationship between a person, some particular
> symbolic expression, who they intended that signal to reach, and how
> it got there, while "tavla" shows a relationship between a person,
> someone who they're talking to, something they're talking about, and
> the language that they're speaking in.  A tavla wants to communicate
> to their selta'a something about their terta'a, so they form a
> sequence of words in their velta'a in order to cusku those words (that
> selsku) to their tersku/selta'a via an appropriate velsku.
>
>
> .i mi tavla do la .lojban. la .lojban.
> (I talk to you about Lojban in Lojban.)
>
> .i mu'a mi cusku lu la .lojban. sampu li'u do
> (For instance, I say "Lojban is simple" to you.)
>
>
>> .i se lu pa re ci li'u cusku do
>> ("123" you said.)
>
>
> I think you meant:
>
> lu pa re ci li'u se cusku do
> ("A hundred and twenty-three", you say.)
>
>
>>  lu le munje li'u cu cmalu
>>
>> I would guess that the "cu" is optional, because the terminator li'u
>> is used.  Is this correct?
>
>
> That's right.  Incidentally, that sentence reads somewhat oddly to me;
> I'm not sure it's wrong, but I probably would have said "lo'u le munje
> le'u cmalu".
>
>
>> Thank you for your help,
>>
>> -Alan
>
>
> .i mi ckire do lei nu do pilno la .lojban.
> (I'm grateful to you that you use Lojban.)
>
> .i lo nu la .lojban. zenba lo ka ricfu ba jalge loi nu do pilno
> (Lojban being increasingly rich will result from your use.)
>
>
> mu'o virnu troci mi'e selkik
>
>
>
>


-- 
mu'o mi'e lex