Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 02 Mar 2009 04:21:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Le79I-0002Q9-M1 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 02 Mar 2009 04:21:32 -0800 Received: from mail-fx0-f175.google.com ([209.85.220.175]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Le79E-0002Oz-7J for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 02 Mar 2009 04:21:32 -0800 Received: by fxm23 with SMTP id 23so1800104fxm.34 for ; Mon, 02 Mar 2009 04:21:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=6WonucmR6RUjleuSB9l0NKrM/V+03dnwC2VXR/ZD0H0=; b=socSLStB6tnBOFocE0gDphH7rQOI1gp+ZqxiwYXQXMu4fJPJi3Ybw+zgFSVOBVPP0/ DoDMC3i3mAfp5GCNodFSflXfotkxdPKBfjCwSNtZG5+xrevgVr/dDt19Q1JkJ7czVpv0 KT6d7amvlAV4xwLrUOtLDcjY291FQ8x85dmO4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=wRw+3G/uWoGNFOT1r61TYeqaC6eqpeY7WMCykiR+JUBh/YtA6EA5L90EiTd/V+iYhT CaA9mevb1MeleRNZJE30dZBAVJmi4bAdSfYzfW/AXDuvUqzzbzgAmTlE8ES/RLKGyTMx ikr3cJkYmtzm08sC8tms1ASfVQ4PiGMPBUWaw= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.86.94.11 with SMTP id r11mr2132989fgb.11.1235996481971; Mon, 02 Mar 2009 04:21:21 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <70697fa40903012056l33282c52wa186bb16109c5059@mail.gmail.com> References: <70697fa40903012056l33282c52wa186bb16109c5059@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 13:21:21 +0100 Message-ID: <4de8c3930903020421n2e1e76fdo368df594e382bdeb@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: How to express " though " "even if " From: tijlan To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 1374 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: pascal.akihiko@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Content-Length: 915 2009/3/2 J Y : > Is it : > > mi pindi .i ku'i mi gleki > ----  mi gleki .i seku'ibo mi pindi > ----  mi gleki gi'u sei da'inai pindi > > mu'o mi'e zo'e I usually use "to'e ki'u nai" for that, literally "not prevented by": mi gleki to'eki'unai lo nu mi pindi I am happy, not prevented by the event of me being poor. I am happy even though I am poor. In other words, "lo nu mi pindi" is not (nai) a reason (ki'u) against (to'e) "mi gleki". Consider also: mi na gleki to'eki'unai lo nu mi ricfu I am unhappy even though I am rich. ... in which the reason "lo nu mi ricfu" does not prevent "mi na gleki". kamymecraijun suggested "ki'unai" (without "to'e"), but I don't think it has the sense you are looking for: mi gleki ki'unai lo nu mi pindi I am happy, not because I am poor. Consider also: mi gleki ki'unai lo nu mi ricfu I am happy, not because I am rich. mu'o mi'e tijlan