From: Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu>
To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org
Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: simple question
Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 03:46:55 -0400
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On Thursday 30 April 2009 15:17:24 Luke Bergen wrote:
> correct me if I'm wrong anybody but...
>
> the way I understand it is that ja/je/jo/ju are used in connecting words in
> a tanru.  So "lo gerku je nakni" is a tanru (treated as a single sumti in
> the bridi) that means "the thing that is a dog and male" whereas if you had
> just said "lo gerku nakni" you're being vague and are saying something more
> like "the dog type-of male".

Correct. "lo nakni gerku" most likely means "a male dog", but "lo gerku nakni" 
doesn't have an obvious meaning.

> .a/.e/.o/.u is for saying "these two sumti fall into this place" but keeps
> them seperate.  So "lo gerku .e nakni" would be "the dog and the male" not
> speaking of 1 thing but of two things.

"lo gerku .e nakni" is ungrammatical. "lo gerku .e lo nakni" does not refer 
necessarily to two things. "lo gerku .e lo nakni cu nenri le kumfa" would be 
true if the room contains me and a female dog, but would be equally true if 
the room contains one male dog and nothing else. "jo'u" may exclude the 
single male dog, but I'm not sure.

By the way, the missing member of the selma'o is "ji", which is a question.

> finally ga/ge/gi/go/gu are just used for giving a reader/listener the
> knowledge that a logical connective is coming up, like "either A or B" is
> "ga .abu gi by"

True.

Pierre

> I'm not sure if in all these cases there should have been a descriptor
> before the second element in the connective.
>
> - Luke Bergen
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Ryan Leach <rsw.leach@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I'm afraid that chapter just made me more confused when I first read it.
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:54 AM, komfo,amonan <komfoamonan@gmail.com>
> >
> > wrote:
> > > On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Ryan Leach <rsw.leach@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> I want to say "lemons and also oranges are both citrus fruits"
> > >>
> > >> The connective word system for lojban is still messing with my brain.
> > >>
> > >> I think it would go like this
> > >>
> > >> "le najnimre ja le pelnimre cu grute"
> > >>
> > >> but I'm not sure. Any help on the ands and such for lojban or a place
> > >> to look them up even?
> > >
> > > lo najnimre .e lo pelnimre cu nimre
> > >
> > > Connectives are covered in chapter 14 of the Complete Lojban Language <
> > > http://www.lojban.org/publications/reference_grammar/chapter14.html >.
> > >
> > > mu'o mi'e komfo,amonan