Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 28 Jul 2009 08:08:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MVoHl-0000V9-PM for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 28 Jul 2009 08:08:14 -0700 Received: from mail-px0-f190.google.com ([209.85.216.190]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MVoHa-0000TU-J6 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 28 Jul 2009 08:08:13 -0700 Received: by pxi28 with SMTP id 28so61907pxi.28 for ; Tue, 28 Jul 2009 08:07:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=mFK0hcmWnLSTMXfGzG8zWfvdoOoporKaWs/N1CLK+vQ=; b=Pr4MNRPPMh6g0nRj0bNt1Rwz9a5ych2VELAiPVkQsJL1ldwyoKcoWFO/de34efbqo2 crKLydEBuYhMIbGSjb3mkDNpT8wMkbLanOFpuIdY4f1Xx38CK5s2eqwLVX/tDY0oNVIe Nq2qM0XcK0ka/kJQZgTFLDxjswcBzVwym3MZs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=Y7UGYy6vKkzfQCFqOWlhJeBS9x0PJz9+5PA48ZssSZ4XgRAwggw10kYpV3MJk8DIny JlknmLmfIpymJRkmzwiHPuhcGR7V72xzjw3yb5u+jjmEwhLJVnoVu3IZpVv4qaiFGeKd U5kbDmtWIc5ahIqxavydytJ3bse87kWMiFY/o= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.97.67 with SMTP id k3mr4810684vcn.7.1248793671659; Tue, 28 Jul 2009 08:07:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <96f789a60907280745p7229e813lbf2031fc2c19ecbb@mail.gmail.com> References: <425e4ac20907280132t5a1d9acbsc10fb970de3033d9@mail.gmail.com> <5715b9300907280631k26f3701eyb0505e488893f8b5@mail.gmail.com> <96f789a60907280745p7229e813lbf2031fc2c19ecbb@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 11:07:51 -0400 Message-ID: <5715b9300907280807j626a08e4i13b287ddc92dd36c@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: "tavla lo na'e te djuno", talking to the unknown, an accidental poem (with translation) From: Luke Bergen To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6475488327bb7046fc56f31 X-archive-position: 1958 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Content-Length: 4516 --0016e6475488327bb7046fc56f31 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hmmm, that's true. I suppose the implication of "other than" is that "I acknowledge that you are loved, but what other besides that are you?". Is it legitimate to say that "you are X and X" which would arguably be different from "you are X and something other than X"? Clearly at this point I'm nitpicking and I understand that the line and stela's translation is a good one. Now I'm just curious about the semantic difference between "other than" and "and". - Luke Bergen On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 10:45 AM, Michael Turniansky wrote: > It is... but what does "you are what and loved?" mean other than "what > are you other than loved?" > --gejyspa > > > > On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Luke Bergen wrote: > >> .ui .u'a. I'm a little confused about the last line though. Why do you >> translate {gi'e} as "other than"? I thought that {gi'e} was an afterthought >> "and"? >> >> - Luke Bergen >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 4:32 AM, Stela Selckiku wrote: >> >>> mi'e la stela selckiku >>> I'm the Lock Key-Opened. >>> >>> doi na'e te djuno do mo .i do mo >>> To the Unknown, who are you? Who are you? >>> >>> .i do mo ca le nu cerni cikna >>> Who are you when you morning wake? >>> >>> .i do mo ca le nu nicte sipna >>> Who are you when you nighttime sleep? >>> >>> .i do mo doi na'e te djuno do'u >>> What do you do, O Unknown, >>> >>> gi'e se prami >>> Other than be loved? >>> >>> mu'o >>> Over. >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > --0016e6475488327bb7046fc56f31 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hmmm, that's true.=A0 I suppose the implication of "other than&quo= t; is that "I acknowledge that you are loved, but what other besides t= hat are you?".=A0 Is it legitimate to say that "you are X and X&q= uot; which would arguably be different from "you are X and something o= ther than X"?=A0

Clearly at this point I'm nitpicking and I understand that the line= and stela's translation is a good one.=A0 Now I'm just curious abo= ut the semantic difference between "other than" and "and&quo= t;.

- Luke Bergen


On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 10:45 AM, Michae= l Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
=A0 It is... but what does "you are what and loved?" mean other t= han "what are you other than loved?"
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 --g= ejyspa



On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.co= m> wrote:
.ui .u'a.=A0 = I'm a little confused about the last line though.=A0 Why do you transla= te {gi'e} as "other than"?=A0 I thought that {gi'e} was a= n afterthought "and"?

- Luke Bergen



On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 4:32 AM, Stela S= elckiku <selckiku@gmail.com> wrote:
mi'e la stela selckiku
I'm the Lock Key-Opened.

doi na'e te djuno do mo .i do mo
To the Unknown, who are you? =A0Who are you?

.i do mo ca le nu cerni cikna
Who are you when you morning wake?

.i do mo ca le nu nicte sipna
Who are you when you nighttime sleep?

.i do mo doi na'e te djuno do'u
What do you do, O Unknown,

gi'e se prami
Other than be loved?

mu'o
Over.






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