Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sun, 06 Sep 2009 14:13:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MkP3X-0005Sw-9U for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sun, 06 Sep 2009 14:13:51 -0700 Received: from mail-ew0-f216.google.com ([209.85.219.216]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MkP3R-0005Sa-BE for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sun, 06 Sep 2009 14:13:51 -0700 Received: by ewy12 with SMTP id 12so2301392ewy.0 for ; Sun, 06 Sep 2009 14:13:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=mZ+wW9krz/6QnRdQGO9Nn9wyybvn3Pe80aUpFYnFNfs=; b=JSs9omepefbzmt8HwGXZaynSWsNnA5ZCan65d3mPdwM6qutfE4zkAY0wOn1lXueAvP /R0BDZ+e9+qw9TMoVR4U+8mfIhDTQVUEzpPwWuL88q4rO8jcSe+yZcIGDn5unS+yRodk pekf/iwZwzCmCxEuT4Ofhq5T51+Nv5SSJ1IHw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=S4FbwFmshCHagit/d/tupjqm7whHE3Ua6dqVjRcXcqXV3GCwONEK0s+vY4tkdgx0Wp OpO1p91Rv+3rntqGx2gVGcjWmNdXq5PiGWVivhTtNKJCdMvRhG9/QAdrV6HdLgTAan2e UYcKtJlurSy2sskThzKFNvF1BDlmAGpD2ge3Y= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.210.7.24 with SMTP id 24mr15402341ebg.48.1252271618953; Sun, 06 Sep 2009 14:13:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <9ada8ecd0909060036m5027ae8h123217ef081c4bd0@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560909060711p19f4dba5vb1eb94dc877bebba@mail.gmail.com> <3E01A143-FB24-4D76-A9DB-0D6AA3065321@choi.name> <200909061340.09471.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 00:13:38 +0300 Message-ID: <9ada8ecd0909061413p69ee8803m6fb7160096c9378b@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: A tanru question From: Squark Rabinovich To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0ce040880291970472ef35d6 X-archive-position: 2219 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: top.squark@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Content-Length: 4457 --000e0ce040880291970472ef35d6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Modulo the fact that strictly speaking we need *lu'i mi'o ctuca simxu . *Jo= rge Llamb=EDas thinks that we can get away with using masses to mean sets. However, consider the following example, from my mail about xorlo: lu'i ci loi nanmu simxu lo nu damba . If I understand xorlo correctly, this means "three groups of men fight against each other", where "each other" means between the groups, not within them. Suppose we drop the *lu'i* . The result is ci loi nanmu simxu lo nu damba . If we allow substituting masses into the firs= t place of *sixmu* , this might mean "three groups of men fight within each other", that is, each group fights within itself. Thus an ambiguity results= . Maybe in simple unambiguous cases like mi'o ctuca simxu we can stretch the rules a bit. On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 9:24 PM, Joshua Choi wrote: > Ah! I see; thanks! > > > On 6 September 2009, at 10:40 AM, Pierre Abbat wrote: > > On Sunday 06 September 2009 13:32:07 Joshua Choi wrote: >> >>> A tiny question on tanru: for the bridi "mi'o simxu lo nu ctuca" ("We >>> teach one another"), if I wanted to use a tanru to say that in a more >>> ambiguous but shorter way, would I say "mi'o simxu ctuca"? Or do I >>> have to switch simxu's places or something? >>> >> >> mi'o ctuca simxu >> >> mu'o >> >> >> >> > > > > --000e0ce040880291970472ef35d6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Modulo the fact that strictly speaking we need lu'i= mi'o ctuca simxu .=A0Jorge Llamb=EDas thinks that we can get away with using masses to mean set= s. However, consider the following example, from my mail about xorlo:=A0lu'i ci loi nanmu simxu lo nu damba=A0. If I und= erstand xorlo correctly, this means=A0"three groups of men fight ag= ainst each other", where "each other" means between the grou= ps, not within them. Suppose we drop the lu'i=A0. The result is= =A0ci loi nanmu simxu lo nu damba=A0. If we allo= w substituting masses into the first place of sixmu=A0, this might m= ean "three groups of men fight within each other", that is, each = group fights within itself. Thus an ambiguity results. Maybe in simple unam= biguous cases like=A0mi'o ctuca simxu=A0we can stretch the rules a b= it.

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 9:24 PM, Joshua Choi = <joshua@choi.name<= /a>> wrote:
Ah! I see; thanks!


On 6 September 2009, at 10:40 AM, Pierre Abbat wrote:

On Sunday 06 September 2009 13:32:07 Joshua Choi wrote:
A tiny question on tanru: for the bridi "mi'o simxu lo nu ctuca&qu= ot; ("We
teach one another"), if I wanted to use a tanru to say that in a more<= br> ambiguous but shorter way, would I say "mi'o simxu ctuca"? Or= do I
have to switch simxu's places or something?

mi'o ctuca simxu

mu'o








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