Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 19 Oct 2009 21:46:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1N06c1-0007xS-7G for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 19 Oct 2009 21:46:21 -0700 Received: from mail-gx0-f224.google.com ([209.85.217.224]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1N06by-0007wx-Ak for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 19 Oct 2009 21:46:21 -0700 Received: by gxk24 with SMTP id 24so12971868gxk.6 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2009 21:46:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=xWFZrZkW7pJV6x3+xGbSI9bpobHu5kgSDuIxB1wQGk8=; b=tiM2xJykurDl8u4Q772xt5JGsEFvJFj15JASiSYtTY7M7u5Msr5XwF/Jh+7jhMnmeI QPLsOAQFFpyIz5KzwAtBz0+89gQddTdFm6Q5QRZOSy14GrMQWgdg5vccFZQY0W7kp9+V VTXSIOZzQVmRGtOdOxWre6bUXcCE7BMIA+EAw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=UYxBYaQFZTMoeIESTY7m+UqiaZ220f6yNDOVeUyD1JVzzQn1WshfyUBvJlN9aMTA4q fV/RQffgzunfrSW5Wdj+yXsmmo0UkTcXaVcRT7wXZQyBRzA9/520jHh/YS0bUtnrX2Wf z5iBs7UzyxcpTAtMjYscG0pVcikDUc/u0r7LE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.151.20.15 with SMTP id x15mr9704830ybi.24.1256013972034; Mon, 19 Oct 2009 21:46:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7f1d42860910192134g7ee88df4i96326127cdb05f8b@mail.gmail.com> References: <200910180906.52373.phma@phma.optus.nu> <609736.99251.qm@web30404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <96f789a60910191140x41fa0e2au9030aebcd35cdbf9@mail.gmail.com> <7f1d42860910192134g7ee88df4i96326127cdb05f8b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 00:46:11 -0400 Message-ID: <5715b9300910192146i644677f7u239e7e55ddcf40d9@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Yoda quote From: Luke Bergen To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd4890ca2d8f90476568a9d X-archive-position: 2460 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Content-Length: 5042 --000e0cd4890ca2d8f90476568a9d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable see I understood yoda to be saying "you either do, or do not do. 'trying' is an illusion". As in, you either do what you intend to do, or you do not= , there is no such thing as "try". On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 12:34 AM, Ryan Leach wrote: > I think we may be looking at the text to be translated wrong. Although > Yoda says "There is no try", He is not saying that people 'cannot' > try. Yoda's quote indirectly means that if you merely try, then you > will fail. > > It might be accurate to say something like "you fail, because do not > act- you merely try" > > I think (and assume that I will be wrong) that this would translate > something like this- > > do fliba ki'u do na zukte .i'enai do troci > > theoretically I suppose either of two chunks of this might work on their > own- > > do fliba ki'u do na zukte > > or > > i'enai do troci > > > Or perhaps "to try is insufficient, you must do something entirely" > > maybe- > > do troci nu na banzu .i eisai do mulno zukte > > or perhaps simplifying the previous to > > do troci nu na banzu > > This is why I originally proposed the version I did. > > After consideration. I think I like this edit of my original as well- > > do zukte jonai do troci > > The idea behind it was that an exclusive or would mean the same thing > that Yoda implies in his original quote, that to try is to fail, > specifically do to a failure to commit/believe from the outset. > > Again, I understand that I am still very much in the learner stages, > and so edits are more than welcome. > > > On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Michael Turniansky > wrote: > > > > It seems to me that Yoda is saying is: > > > > ko ba'e troci na gi'u zukte > > > > Don't /TRY/ whether or not you do. > > > > --gejyspa > > > > > > > > > > -- > =93Nothing bothers me more than sloth. The objective is to fix mistakes > of ambition and not make mistakes of sloth. I work my ass off.=94 > -Tim Ferriss > > > > --000e0cd4890ca2d8f90476568a9d Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable see I understood yoda to be saying "you either do, or do not do.=A0 &#= 39;trying' is an illusion".=A0 As in, you either do what you inten= d to do, or you do not, there is no such thing as "try".

<= div class=3D"gmail_quote"> On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 12:34 AM, Ryan Leach <rsw.leach@gmail.com> wrote:
I think we may be looking at the text to be translated wrong. Although
Yoda says "There is no try", He is not saying that people 'ca= nnot'
try. Yoda's quote indirectly means that if you merely try, then you
will fail.

It might be accurate to say something like "you fail, because do not act- you merely try"

I think (and assume that I will be wrong) that this would translate
something like this-

do fliba ki'u do na zukte .i'enai do troci

theoretically I suppose either of two chunks of this might work on their ow= n-

do fliba ki'u do na zukte

or

i'enai do troci


Or perhaps "to try is insufficient, you must do something entirely&quo= t;

maybe-

do troci nu na banzu .i eisai do mulno zukte

or perhaps simplifying the previous to

do troci nu na banzu

This is why I originally proposed the version I did.

After consideration. I think I like this edit of my original as well-

do zukte jonai do troci

The idea behind it was that an exclusive or would mean the same thing
that Yoda implies in his original quote, that to try is to fail,
specifically do to a failure to commit/believe from the outset.

Again, I understand that I am still very much in the learner stages,
and so edits are more than welcome.


On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Michael Turniansky
<mturniansky@gmail.com> = wrote:
>
> =A0 It seems to me that Yoda is saying is:
>
> ko=A0 ba'e troci na gi'u zukte
>
> =A0=A0 Don't /TRY/ whether or not you do.
>
> =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 --gejyspa
>
>
>



--
=93Nothing bothers me more than sloth. The objective is to fix mistakes
of ambition and not make mistakes of sloth. I work my ass off.=94
-Tim Ferriss




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