Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Fri, 18 Dec 2009 18:05:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NLohE-0007oq-Uj for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Fri, 18 Dec 2009 18:05:29 -0800 Received: from mail-pz0-f193.google.com ([209.85.222.193]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NLoh7-0007hf-Ld for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Fri, 18 Dec 2009 18:05:24 -0800 Received: by pzk31 with SMTP id 31so2427574pzk.28 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 2009 18:05:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type; bh=BmMhYkVsr/3ZOfignSuEo17khk/25tg0Sx+hMq1BizQ=; b=KE3e8OFH9R7DnC3e/ObPJ2t4uM7I1zR+YXjkaO2wIyF9OjWrNArHGD2ZnvFspZ1rfD s8xPS6+wxDM+W37pm2BRZZmenNk3idUc/xWWYHVWJ+aIdkKjw7+D9rhVjCAi6pxj3J3x /huJWhqyjiU808lucLzJwonWiaqW/NDAScNi4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; b=Bl1LC8V9JJZe0dbIG+aMNl6UdtNpDBFVklnveCBBoOAp0k2NQhC15cUZjyblVhOK1o ZvfI5utyV+PjyWOmHZccQu9mQHHn0FtLos7zIiv5w7QhVHn6Id+l8YqXzROzaiFvEHwd j/oTh0EbXZRqHXUrNggVeyZPR8igFLWoASgFM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.122.6 with SMTP id u6mr3043088wfc.95.1261188315128; Fri, 18 Dec 2009 18:05:15 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <200912172230.29053.phma@phma.optus.nu> <5a3750120912180545p64d95c2cm969572cf42c406c9@mail.gmail.com> <702226df0912181406u4f338dacuc47f8c6d4c6542d1@mail.gmail.com> <20091218221314.GB1650@alice.local> From: Oren Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 10:04:55 +0800 Message-ID: <27513e550912181804k6ee85d1dh576e356f8598ea11@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: A question about gismu definitions To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636e0ba0384a23b047b0b4965 X-archive-position: 2668 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: get.oren@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Content-Length: 4463 --001636e0ba0384a23b047b0b4965 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I think that for brevity, it's fine to use a gismu like {cpina}, but only through context (which may be clarified through use of attitudinals) will it point to any of the several narrower English glosses. mu'a [after taking a whiff of a piping hot linguini in vodka sauce with sharp parmigiano cheese] { .i cpina .au cai } "Mmm! What an aroma!" (meaning smells powerful, probably good) [after eating too much wasabi, crying as you blow your nose] { .i cpina .oi ro'o } "Agh, that's painfully spicy" (meaning tastes hot-spicy, probably bad) [after taking a swig of strong vodka] { cpina } "that's good stuff." (meaning it's flavorful, probably good here) [after your friend takes of their shoes] { cpina } "that's fragrant." (meaning it's pungent, probably bad here) co'o mi'e .ku'us On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 06:30, Christopher Doty wrote: > Hrm... Okay, I guess this is the same issue I was having with > person--namely, it's not clear what definition of the English word the > gismu has. > > Is it best to assume, then, that gismu are essentially free of any > connotations about desirability or undesirability (unless the gismu is > actually about such a thing, of course)? So any of the connotations > about the desirability or lack thereof would best be accomplished with > attitudinals as I did before (+ cu)? > > Chris > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 14:13, Alan Post > wrote: > > Irritating could be a description of the effect that spicy food has > > in your mouth, which could rightly be described as irritating, even > > when the endorphins generated make that something you desire. > > > > Something being an irritant, in a chemical sense, doesn't imply a > > value judgement about desirability. > > > > -Alan > > > > --001636e0ba0384a23b047b0b4965 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I think that for brevity, it's fine to use a gismu lik= e {cpina}, but only through context (which may be clarified through use of = attitudinals) will it point to any of the several narrower English glosses.=

mu'a

[after taking a whiff of a piping hot linguini in vodka= sauce with sharp parmigiano cheese]
{ .i cpina .au cai } "Mmm! Wha= t an aroma!" (meaning smells powerful, probably good)

[after ea= ting too much wasabi, crying as you blow your nose]
{ .i cpina .oi ro'o } "Agh, that's painfully spicy" (mean= ing tastes hot-spicy, probably bad)

[after taking a swig of strong v= odka]
{ cpina } "that's good stuff." (meaning it's fla= vorful, probably good here)

[after your friend takes of their shoes]
{ cpina } "that's = fragrant." (meaning it's pungent, probably bad here)

co'= ;o mi'e .ku'us

On Sat, Dec 19, 20= 09 at 06:30, Christopher Doty <suomichris@gmail.com> wrote:
Hrm... Okay, I gu= ess this is the same issue I was having with
person--namely, it's not clear what definition of the English word the<= br> gismu has.

Is it best to assume, then, that gismu are essentially free of any
connotations about desirability or undesirability (unless the gismu is
actually about such a thing, of course)? =A0So any of the connotations
about the desirability or lack thereof would best be accomplished with
attitudinals as I did before (+ cu)?

Chris

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 14:13, Alan Post <alanpost@sunflowerriver.org> wrote:
> Irritating could be a description of the effect that spicy food has > in your mouth, which could rightly be described as irritating, even > when the endorphins generated make that something you desire.
>
> Something being an irritant, in a chemical sense, doesn't imply a<= br> > value judgement about desirability.
>
> -Alan




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