Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 23 Dec 2009 04:21:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NNQDm-0005J1-26 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 23 Dec 2009 04:21:42 -0800 Received: from n9.bullet.re3.yahoo.com ([68.142.237.94]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NNQDN-00058X-AR for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 23 Dec 2009 04:21:24 -0800 Received: from [68.142.237.90] by n9.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Dec 2009 12:21:10 -0000 Received: from [66.196.97.152] by t6.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Dec 2009 12:21:10 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp205.mail.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Dec 2009 12:21:10 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 172220.58062.bm@omp205.mail.re3.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 54270 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Dec 2009 12:21:10 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rogers.com; s=s1024; t=1261570869; bh=mD3/dBRmWjsfLGa0oLHzueIGPbHDDEX3bn6v/5/xfSQ=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=TEAAwycoV4t6YT7g95JdMpxy5Z29xprKFEJuVl808+U6gH6aEkwKHMeosBYZyDvSs26Jwv5oPLyZum7adQaHDybJY6opEJqvr9IDGIFafEcARTDk7qGiczWZHKciJtfMZtdwIAXZDpQKny5032atNHeazyHC8uNAYR1LEXrMRm4= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=pU1RsQO8yeIHi6isf/Px93cikfq7WvABe/XzUUoiu2jOKr/Fo+hEiMpvepeJe79+5m+GRAkPB1rkfFpZmzxVHCtIGoylB1u0DEsnHJJLZMaJyNIncOg36x6/REO/cpxBhrccvnmS/nD8hVha0bA43/v0ZS/VbIQT/CSeJyxxn/0=; Message-ID: <915587.54171.qm@web88003.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: UepPTXoVM1lbhzmkO_9hrOaZUnNM4J.pwIXHK.YUUTEoV0kaw6UglzQN.c1YscLaQGyUyWz4cehPJEEZGwGT1g8_3KJTD9qHbc0_Dgqq9_OKx1HTguFYjHhNvO70Tnkb5KyXC_hHkdXLoUP_WBMLlEvm8TNLI58TVwca86GnA.jCrF_m8fuApeVYo_Tt5OcSEYRCE1qa8y9jw5J0GKCIfgNQBh3PmkOQwcF422cYWURuZBGtFRHy9130zhBEqEUql0O2YZ_liLnOmIvW6XnMnG3fI.o7NYOKXS3RJ_y9HKdeGA_p2nhSdyBeJuHAcgjGLdhJLj_DQAdnzgN5E_gY9Czwg.8M0qurz9JiYYTVdGjWxix6qt0mrXsGDXZh4w.64yEQ5LUODkUSB73ZTr2AT6NQwFYp53pOrrpF3oI- Received: from [99.229.170.85] by web88003.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 23 Dec 2009 04:21:09 PST References: <230918.3024.qm@web88005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <96f789a60912211122g130717c8ja5edfa04d77a0825@mail.gmail.com> <110822.32761.qm@web88005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <27513e550912211713s6a3b85c2ya5d86d86de39d4c2@mail.gmail.com> <330650.65926.qm@web88005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <27513e550912220751x757995cbi4e80e17aeaf1d2eb@mail.gmail.com> <249d5b950912221007h2e7c2457l17b5ab2ad3ccfef2@mail.gmail.com> <476725.92360.qm@web88006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <27513e550912221732r74e896ddnc72818c0db85be01@mail.gmail.com> <762696.19092.qm@web88006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <27513e550912221954g8553b15t2447129b7cce0caf@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 04:21:09 -0800 (PST) From: "A. PIEKARSKI" Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Site for beginners was: vlatai and logflash To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org In-Reply-To: <27513e550912221954g8553b15t2447129b7cce0caf@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1259817050-1261570869=:54171" X-archive-position: 2707 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: totus@rogers.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Content-Length: 8414 --0-1259817050-1261570869=:54171 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, Oren=0A.=0A=0AThis exchange of emails is a good reminder to us all = about =0Ahow carefully we will need to communicate to our intended =0Aaudie= nce through the intended beginners website.=0A=0AI may not have ever have w= rritten a line of code, but I have worked =0Amany years in IT companies (sa= les, marketing, marketing =0Acommunications).=A0 Many beginners will be eve= n further removed =0Afrom the the world of IT.=0A=0ABy the way, what's KDE?= =A0 I suspect something American.=A0 Well, =0AI'm not an American and I ass= ume we want non-American beginners too.=0A=0Atotus=0AParley is part of the = KDE Education Project, it's a flashcard program built specifically to showc= ase different styles of foreign-language learning. Its free and only built = for linux as far as I'm aware.=0A>=0A>CSV (a .csv file) is literally just a= text file with "comma separated values." Excel and OpenOffice can export a= nd import as .csv, and it's really easy to transfer a plain text file (such= as a list of gismu!) into csv format for quick creation and manipulation o= f "decks" of flashcards.=0A>=0A>=0A>On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 10:43, A. PIEKA= RSKI wrote:=0A>=0A>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>>From: Oren =0A>>>=0A>>>To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org=0A>>>Sent: Tue= , December 22, 2009 8:32:03 PM =0A>>>=0A>>>Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: = Site for beginners was: vlatai and logflash=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>re= : Quizlet -- I tried quizlet a while back (and again after reading this ema= il) and my connection is consistently reset (as it was last time I tried), = which probably means it's very good, since China's censoring it! I'll fire = up my proxy sometime and check it out.=0A>>>=0A>>>The one thing that would = make one of these services killer for me is import and export of plain old = CSV files. That's why I like jMemorize, whereas things like Parley have fle= xibility but need pesky xml markup. Is Quizlet good for this?=0A>>>=0A>>>Wh= at are CSV and Parley.=A0 I'm Category 2, remember? =0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>The o= ther reasons I like smart.fm are I think the study sessions are very well-e= xecuted containing automatic mp3 playback, and the prompts to type the answ= ers work great with ascii lojban.=0A>>>=0A>>>Yes, it looks good, but it's n= ot ready yet.=A0 In the meantime.... =0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>I guess my point of = mentioning flashcards in the first place was to say that I don't think it m= akes sense to design the website to include flashcards when there's free al= ternatives that are already hosted, maintained and developed elsewhere, and= that would also give lojban more opportunities for mainstream exposure at = the same time.=0A>>>=0A>>>You're right of course!=A0 But the beginner websi= te should refer to them, and provide some information that will let the beg= inner choose the one best for him/her.=0A>>>=0A>>>totus=0A> --0-1259817050-1261570869=:54171 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks, Oren
.
=0A 
=0A
This exchange of emails is a good reminder to us all = about
=0A
how carefully we will need to communicate to our intend= ed
=0A
audience through the intended beginners website.
=0A<= DIV> =0A
I may not have ever have wrritten a line of code, b= ut I have worked
=0A
many years in IT companies (sales, marketing= , marketing
=0A
communications).  Many beginners will be eve= n further removed
=0A
from the the world of IT.
=0A
&nbs= p;
=0A
By the way, what's KDE?  I suspect something American.=   Well,
=0A
I'm not an American and I assume we want non-Ame= rican beginners too.
=0A
 
=0A
totus
=0A=0A
=0A
=0A
Parley is part of the KDE E= ducation Project, it's a flashcard program built specifically to showcase d= ifferent styles of foreign-language learning. Its free and only built for l= inux as far as I'm aware.

CSV (a .csv file) is literally just a text= file with "comma separated values." Excel and OpenOffice can export and im= port as .csv, and it's really easy to transfer a plain text file (such as a= list of gismu!) into csv format for quick creation and manipulation of "de= cks" of flashcards.

=0A
On Wed, Dec 23, 2009= at 10:43, A. PIEKARSKI <tot= us@rogers.com> wrote:
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A

=0A
= =0A
From: Oren <get.ore= n@gmail.com>=0A

To: lojban= -beginners@lojban.org
Sen= t: Tue, December 22, 2009 8:32:03 PM=0A

Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: = Site for beginners was: vlatai and logflash

=0A

=0A
re: Quizlet -- I tried quizlet a while back (= and again after reading this email) and my connection is consistently reset= (as it was last time I tried), which probably means it's very good, since = China's censoring it! I'll fire up my proxy sometime and check it out.
<= BR>The one thing that would make one of these services killer for me is imp= ort and export of plain old CSV files. That's why I like jMemorize, whereas= things like Parley have flexibility but need pesky xml markup. Is Quizlet = good for this?
=0A
 
=0A
W= hat are CSV and Parley.  I'm Category 2, remember?=0A
<= BR>
The other reasons I like smart.fm are I think the study sessions are very well-= executed containing automatic mp3 playback, and the prompts to type the ans= wers work great with ascii lojban.
=0A
 =0A
Yes, it looks good, but it's not ready yet.  In the= meantime....=0A


I guess my point of mentioning flas= hcards in the first place was to say that I don't think it makes sense to d= esign the website to include flashcards when there's free alternatives that= are already hosted, maintained and developed elsewhere, and that would als= o give lojban more opportunities for mainstream exposure at the same time.<= BR>
You're right of course!  But the beginner website should = refer to them, and provide some information that will let the beginner choo= se the one best for him/her.
=0A
 
=0A
totus
<= BR>
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